Are Hybrids Green? Not so far.
Started by James Clark · · 5 posts · last reply 12 November 2013
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#1 ·
I just posted this on our site, Coil Pack 4 u | News / Blog -
#2 ·
@James
I'm not sure I would agree because LNG creates too many problems in itself. Now consider the number of accidents that occur and the fact that if any part of the tank and lines rupture a highly combustible pressurized gas is released and when ignited explodes. It is a disaster in the making.Liquid Natural Gas Hybrids are really the ultimate coming technology, even though Diesel Hybrids are interesting for the moment. Gasoline is just a very poor source of fuel for several reasons.
If you consider that the average total conversion efficiency is still well below 20% then we have done anything but well. If you gave me one dollar for fuel and I only gave you 20 cents worth would you consider this money well spent?.
Maybe it's about time we look at the real facts.
As a Power Engineer the first thing we look at is combustion analysis, that is what is in the fuel and how much energy does it have. Generally the carbon reduces to CO2 and the Hydrogen reduces to H2O. As such the best fuel has the highest energy density at which point we come to combustion efficiency. This relates to how much of the Energy is liberated as heat which then produces pressure.
Next we have conversion efficiency which relates to the percentage of Energy which actually performs work versus simply being dissipated into the environment as heat.
You know it's funny how people talk of technology but nobody can argue the fact that a 30 year old volkswagen rabbit diesel using 50+ year old technology still gets better mileage than 90% of the new hybrids with no batteries required.
As well the real problem with these micro-diesels has nothing to do with efficiency. It was the fact that the mighty rabbit could go almost 500,000k with almost no maintenance other than changing the tires and oil. Thus the auto-makers were losing money because it is a well known fact that most sell the vehicles near cost and profit from parts and labor. This is the reason new vehicles are so complicated because almost no maintenance can be performerd by the owner. It has nothing to do with efficiency because the parts and labor will always exceed the savings in fuel...catch 22, your simply paying the auto maker instead of the fuel producer.
In any case as an Engineer I can tell you that we have no problems with engineering a simple 100 mpg diesel car however the economics will not allow it.
AC -
#3 ·
Completely agree with Allcanadian.
This issue about efficiency and new vs old technology is really a non starter, the bane of our existence is the money machine. Until we deal with that it doesn't really matter what we come up with.
It really all has to do with pacifying the frightened, nearsighted, greedy stock investor and nothing else. These people with their pathology are exactly why the western world has suffered repeatedly over the centuries.
It's frustrating as a person who has worked on the whole gamut of automotive technology from 1886 right up through today to see technologies get invented again and again and get nowhere. The technology exists in manifest form to ditch fuel completely, ditch charging completely, ditch any form of energy input which would require money to procure. As always, the problems come only in form of the mentally insane financial junkies, and money addicts running the world today. Perhaps we should start a political party for the imprisonment of these personalities?! jk.
Seriously though, I earned my first bachelors double majoring in Auto Restoration and History(emphasis technology). There are more old forgotten technologies sitting on the warehouse shelves of automakers across the world than you could possibly imagine. "The Automobile" as we know it should by now, be self powering, non wheeled, space capable. and that is not a joke.
When i worked for the Mercedes Benz classic center, i often would have to go find or get parts or work on vehicles in long forgotten old warehouses that the company itself barely remembered it owned, filled with the most magnificent technologies you've never seen: pre WWII rocket cars, hydraulic engines, mind boggling fuel systems, HCCI, radio-active decay engines, and occult stuff(at least at mercedes) from WWII like electro gravitic lift systems and the like... Crazy stuff, and I have no doubt that one can find similar stuff in forlorn corners of any long time auto company. Companies with 10's of thousands of, normally bored, engineers often doing very little but drinking coffee(or in mercedes' case: beer) and arguing, inevitably come up with far out stuff.
The problem is not engineering, in many ways enthusiast engineers are repeating what goes on in engineering heavy firms every day, often only barely grasping what these firms mastered 80 years previous.
I was once ordered to throw out every spare part to the group C cars Mercedes had(and it was a warehouse full of the stuff). Cars, capable, with gear box changes, of 330mph top speeds and incredible reliability, literally the best race cars every made and why? because some exec, on a whim decided so. These exec's are the same pathology as the wall street neurotic. Only concerned about the next product cycle, or next quarter stock earnings, and it's they who are driving civilization into the ground.
This is the true problem. The business person is the real satan of good engineering and problem solving.
Honestly, LNG is garbage technology. IF you're going with a fuel might as well stick with the most energy dense, commercially available fuel: gasoline. Time would be better spent optimizing pulse motors and the like, than LNG. The reason is there is no need to buy fuel. THere are plenty of high horsepower and torque solutions which are NON fueled(by which i mean, that you have to pay for).
But really, there are only so many things you can do before our glorified ox carts become anything but absurd relics of a bygone era, only, glitzed up with the latest trendy gadgets.
Having seen many things squirreled away in forgotten warehouses; I would rather spend my time on the likes of teleportation, or cheap, personal transport to space or the like. Things which really are at the forefront of our capabilities today.
The Motor carriage, as it stands is a tired concept, and people will invent "new" engines, suspensions, motors, and the like for these old vehicles again and again forever unless we think differently. At some point we need to give up the carriage and take to the stars. At some point we need to give up roads for instantaneous travel. One of the reasons I got out of the auto restoration business is because it just became too much of a burden knowing what I know about technology to up hold this myth of automobile culture as freedom and the pinnacle of our engineering ability. It's not, they're just glammed up ox carts and nothing else. The past is littered with valid solutions to extreme efficiency problems. LNG is not the solution, it's a smoke screen.
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#4 ·
The Big Lie...
Hello to All, nice Thread!
Hybrids -of any kind that still uses explosion and burning of flammable fuels- are like a "soft pain killer" -an Aspirin- for a Terminal Disease Illness...I see it like for all the ignorants out there...the sheeples...to say" OMG!...We have a "State of the Art Technology"...and unfortunately...it is a majority...reason why...we are all where we are at...driving the stinking, farting, leakers of all kind of oils...obsolete Dinosaurs.
ALL Transport on this Planet is dependent upon the stinking technology...think about a BOEING 747 Hybrid?...
Yes, we all could have by now the "Flying Cars"...but nope...can't do...also an "Economical Treat"...a Treat to all the State and Nation wide thieves Politicians that make huge commissions on Highways rebuild and construction...from the Landscape Palm Trees billionaire "business"...all the way to the Asphalt...another side of Oil Industry...
We could have VTOL Technology by now, that would only use a small Helicopter Path...and transport hundreds of people...but then again...it would not be required any longer several 8000 feet runways -also made of Asphalt/Oil- (called Airport) to lift and land the heavy dinosaurs up and down the air...
Nikola Tesla Pierce Arrow 1931...made 90 MPH without a huge "Bank" of Batteries underneath the flooring of the whole vehicle...operating over 400 volts and 300 amps...to feed all this to this Starving to Burning Energy Motors...that would blow all that power in minutes of fast driving...ridiculous!
Ever seen a Tesla Electric Car Commercial?...I have not so far...only Dinosaurs are allowed to be advertised on TV Networks that also belong to TPTB...
VW Blue Motion tdi gets 78 MPG. Americans are being scammed. See Why - YouTube
If just a vehicle that makes 70 MPG is NOT Allowed on USA...could you ever think they will allow the "perfect" electric car to be developed?...keep dreaming right?
Take care
Ufopolitics -
#5 ·
Hi Ufopolitics,
OK, if you have the keys, it is the time to fully disclose the Tesla Aarow TPU Ufopolitcs style!
We very much look forward to the disclosure,
IndianaBoys
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