jtanguay

Yes I believe r134a does contain propane or some type of hydrocarbon but only a small amount.

As for this setup it sounds great, but the electrodes will erode quite quickly. Depending on how you do it, you might end up creating ozone rather than ionizing the air, but that can still be beneficial. Remember that even simply ionizing the intake air will help better atomize the fuel as the opposite charges will better disperse and cling to the fuel.

Ionizing the fuel will help as well as it will reduce the molecule clusters. This should mean that it evaporates/atomizes extremely well. I have a water ionizer, but I paid too much for it to test it on gasoline as I would never trust it with my drinking water afterwards. As for the permanent magnet ionizers, I'm very skeptical but given the right orientation and the amount of fuel that passes by them (faster the better) it should ionize. The problem with this is that the fuel pump isn't always on, and fuel isn't always flowing. Once you reach 50 psi or so (depending on your make/model) the fuel pump shuts off. This is why I would like to see the conventional ionizer using electroplates. If the results from this experiment can be trusted, then perhaps the solution is even more simple than we thought?

How do you know though? Unless you've examined piece by piece... There have been plenty of brute force electrolysis conversions anyways. The cost of the stainless steel to be replaced every few months is probably a drop in the bucket for the fuel saved. (well maybe not so much with todays fuel prices...)

You seem quite sure of yourself that Neal is using brute force electrolysis. I haven't examined his system but even just observing it for a short period, I wouldn't make such a claim.

I've been to his shop. Real down to earth kinda guy who genuinely wants to do some good.

He showed me one of his HHO cells and the cutting power with the torch he made. The size and length of the flame was quite impressive.

When I get a chance I'll drop by his shop and see if he has any units to see. I don't have much cash but I'd be willing to drop a few bills no problem if I could see the unit in action.

I like the way he's doing business. Raising money by actually building/selling units. I think anyone can appreciate that more than just taking hand outs without anything to show for it.

This is what Neal has been up to, and should serve as more than enough proof of what can be expected with the boards he's selling.

What I would be interested in, would be an adaptation of arduino logic boards; just build a board that easily connects to an arduino PIC, with the code to back everything up. My guess is that the whole unit could be downsized to a third or less of what Stan had. It would also be far cheaper as arduinos are going for a couple bucks a piece from China.

Good stuff Neal

Some links are broken on that site. I'm also assuming that there is a 'lead time' (assuming you build/assemble the units per order) for orders.

Any recommendations on the best (most efficient) cell design?

Thanks

Well just went to check it again and it's not too impressive. Water heats up but it does create those white sparks. When it happened at first it seemed more spectacular but is just due to the gap being very small between the tubes. The brown muck being created is pretty disgusting too. What a terrible way to make HHO. Seems like the bifilar chokes reduced my amp draw from about 2 amps to 1.2 amps or so. I guess they do work. And the gas production seemed to stay about the same too.

Well my power input is coming from a 90 watt laptop power pack. 19 volts at around 4.5 amps or so. But I can also get the same effect from the 18 volt drill battery pack. That thing can put out some serious power but again the meter didn't go over 2 amps.

I might be able to replicate it... I should go try. Now to find the video camera lol. I swear if I can get that white arcing on tape I'll be happy. Who knows, maybe they've already started adding lithium to our water?

lol I guess you're right. I wondered about trying to measure the output of the gas, but I don't have anything to do that unfortunately.

The best I ever got for no electrolyte and reverse osmosis filtered water was with the bedini impedance matching charger but I only tried a 12 volt and about 200ma input. It still gave me bubbles believe it or not... But I have a weird coil I wound as a solenoid with 2 layers of 24 gauge at about 300 turns on 1 1/2 inch abs pipe. I also have about 7 layers of 34 gauge at 900 turns each on there, so I tried different combinations. I think the key is using the impedance matching charger and using high voltage input. Stan talked about 5 watt input but I think the average joe will be hard pressed to get anywhere near that. Heck even a 200 watt input with no electrolyte and high gas production would be incredible!

Well forget the 'crazy' results lol.

Turns out the municipal water where I live is rock hard. (who needs electrolyte?)

It just dawned on me that the meter completed the direct circuit and sure enough I tried some of my filtered drinking water and guess what? No HHO

So the moral of this thread is... check your household water! I'm so glad I don't drink that stuff, but regrettably have to shower in it.

I will report that with the impedance matching charger I was able to get some production with the same filtered water though, but it was with a very small input. I might go back to that method and try with the bigger power supply.

Ah I feel like a newbie

Hi guys!

I just got some crazy hho output with the bedini charger (modified of course). Now the modification is the strangest part. I'm no pro, but I like to tinker and try different things. I have a bifilar toroid choke for both the positive and negative, and haven't tried without that but I'm sure the results should be about the same.

So I stumbled on the phenomenon by accident. I was trying to measure amp draw with my cheapie meter. I set it to the 10A setting and changed the probe to the appropriate connector. I then started connecting it in various places and noticed that the fan slowed/quit moving on certain spots, and then I tried hooking the positive end to the positive tube and the negative end to the negative input source.

So my input is 19v @ 90 watts (that's whats listed anyway) and the meter while hooked up shows 1.8 on the screen so I'm assuming 1.8 amps. I re-confirmed the input voltage on my analogue meter to be about 19 volts. As I was trying to connect the probes I heard a strange noise, and lo and behold the hydrogen production went from tiny little bubbles to boiling water! I confirmed (with ringing in my ears) that it is indeed HHO by burning a very large bubble. So is this really high hho output at around 40 watts? By the way, the fan will not turn in this mode. And there is no cap pulser on the back end. Just a straight connection to the tubes.

I'm busy at the moment with other things so I can't make a video yet but any comments welcome. I thought I'd share because anyone with one of those cheapie digital meters can try this.

Now for some extra testing I did... This is the weirdest part. I made the gap on my stainless very small and so i was pulling the tubes out of the water to try to see if the amp draw would go down, but to my surprise it went up. In fact when I pulled it out of the water I heard a loud hiss as if the water was really boiling hard then the gauge went off the scale so I quickly put it back in the water to not burn out the fuse. This is the craziest part. I started seeing white arcing at one point under the water so I chickened out and disconnected the test probe, waited a few seconds and plugged it back in... then the high level production resumed.

By the way, this was all done with regular tap water. I'll have to try with distilled water sometime, but like I said I'm so busy with other stuff.

Thanks for the interest!