Water Spark To Hydrogen And Water Vapor Pressure Ran Engines 2005-2008
Started by russwr · · 68 posts · last reply 7 June 2026
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#1 ·
This is more clarification for those still interested in the S1R9A9M9 YOUTUBE mower engine conversion of water in carb as was done in 2008. The website Yahoo Groups waterFuel1978 data typed was by Nathren himself (the father) while his son was much more technical minded than him. The son had same name Nathren. The web forum data was signed Sir for the father, and Nathren for the son's data. Simple adjustable brass valve was not used for water line in that back yard test. The 2 people just squeezed the tubing for the amount of water flow to be allowed. The water upside down water bottle had loose cap so as air can bubble upward into bottle as the water flowed downward. LOW amount of water must be allowed to be pulled in by the vacuum of engine at carb top. (So engine not fowl the plug) The idling engine ran on electrolysis for hydrogen gas at spark plug in combustion chamber, aided by water vapor pressure same time. The EGR was not applied as per the previous car engines done, but was supposed to be added with adjustable valve. (Air compressed into water is is 78% Nitrogen aids engine efficiency) The 18HP Briggs engine normally used 4000 ohm resistive spark plug. It has LONG REACH threads that screws in to threaded hole. Nathren and 3 technicians in Georgia only found spark plug of 125 ohms - same threads. At that time they did not know about Champion spark plugs that can come apart. They could not make engine run on 5amps dc since 12-14 volts could not push current through a high value resistance. That's why circuit had added a triple S1R9A9M9 magnetic coils assembly that provided several uses the same time. (#1) magnetic field over plug BARE #12 copper 5 turns with 21 SPECIAL insulated turns extends spark time to late negative 38 degrees. (#2) 5 amps DC average on hand meter is Peak 10 amps DC current on oscilloscope - same amps for field also as going through spark plug . (#3) Timing change done different way since Briggs ignition coil Magnetron is not adjustable as on older car engines turning the distributor. (4) The use of Ohms law E = I X R says can't pass 5 amps through 125 ohms with about 14 volts. About 63 volts required that's not normally available. The wire for high voltage passing through the S1R coils was only bare copper wire. The insulated low voltage wire was SPECIAL wrapped over it. There was cross leakage inductance of higher voltage induced in the low side. This is how the current passed through the spark plug at higher superimposed pressure voltage. At that time they did not know that you could remove resistor from top of a long reach Champion plug and replace it with copper segment, and form a zero ohms plug, or RACING spark plug. Farther down the line, the two output wires go together to plug top. There is a magnetic field present at combustion chamber that aids the process. 7 A peak through 1-2 wire inductor coils in relay provides magnetic field transferred to plug gap. On Briggs engine there is a magnetic field from Sir coils with possible relay inductors also, as the dimensions fit inside the plastic tub. There is a "return ground" wire present so as low volts does not return through the casting of engine, as the high volts does. See in video the extension cord "Y" that connects as very long wire from under spark plug to side of plastic tub on side of engine. The separate return line was used on all car conversions with the 400w inverter box. Time in micro/milliseconds is saved by this method and less ohms resistance. Engine started on 12 battery, then battery removed. Engine ran on the under flywheel alternator and DC from diode(s) half wave or full wave DC. The quick positive engine demonstrations Videos 1+2, did not have ANY preventive safety measures as the 10KV was across the battery and dangerous for acid explosion only when battery connected to starter motor. After several non tech people got hurt by acid or burnt shorted wires, they changed the written data on web site so as a duplication wouldn't work . The 3rd video on back porch engine test did not have wire of 5 amps connected to spark plug. The other Youtube videos of "The Smack" testing same engine at Nathren's property also did not have 5 amps wire hooked to spark plug top, but to an alternate resistance load as fan motor. On the first running engine video you can see the 3 power wires coming down from the upper cowl into the plastic tub on side of engine. The heat of the 2008 summer, the heat of engine, had melted the spiral black electrical tape glue so as the heavy tub slides downward, exposing the upper power wires. The S1R coils are in the tub along with other parts such as required accessory spark gap . Nathren's, and tech friends invention was shown working , running on water, but he neglected to say it was self running from the 12 +1 MAGNETS under the spinning flywheel . (The Plus red cable from battery was removed.) That Briggs 18HP had "dual" alternators as originally for one side for 5A for riding mower AC headlights, and 4 A for battery charging. They can be put together for higher amps out, up to 16 amps Full Wave DC, idle speed. Web site shut down. Most of the tech data was on the car conversions using one relay of dual 1.5MH coils per cylinder using the 400W DC to 115vAC inverter source power with one diode output. The 15 relays they had were obsolete- non purchasable . That's why the S1R triple coils was the replacement and using 12v DC instead. See my other messages for other data. There are several US Patents on superimposing 2 power sources together. I use a made up Power supply of ISOLATED secondary side from China 20Khz Inverter open board with voltage doubler , so as the 2 grounds do not interfere. You cannot use the common dc to dc step up voltage converters sold, as it uses 2 of same ground.- non isolated. My set up is about 38V DC , because you need protection from High V., and there are voltage drop losses in series, with resistors + series diode bank , leaving about 20 volts to spark plug for the in series current flow. You could also use Power On Board 500W inverter box so as getting the secondary side transformer wire gauge as handling 6.5 amps, then hooking to SCR controlled adjustable AC voltage reducer with meter, to get about 38v DC after the following rectifier or diode, assuming the plug is zero ohms. The green box 400w 115vAC Power On board brand, is what the technicians used in the shop in Georgia 2008 with the "worth their weight in gold" vacuumed sealed AC 60cycles traffic signals switching relays used in pole boxes that allowed smooth running of car engines. Their Inverter they tested could not be used with the S1R coils assembly on mower engine, as it will bog down and quit, most likely from the coils leakage inductance interfering with box. They should of made the coils assembly right the first time with all insulation + proper plug, and proper protection including fuses. The box inverter or triple coils assembly will work due to the expected 38% only duty cycle of on time as flywheel goes around to fire again. The Inverter boxes have a Peak double value wattage usable , but only for very short time such as start mode, but can use a short duty cycle as not on 100% of the time. Nathren had said there was a 1 HP loss for every 6HP of an engine, and they run at a lower RPM. THE 1978 Elcamino was on 18 miles per gallon only stream mineral water at highway speeds, PLUS the required EGR usage, at 6-7 amps Peak 3.5 A average current, because of the 50% duty cycle after diode from Inverter box. That "Wife's" car was in security garage locked up, he was hassled and shot at by thugs, arrested once, and wife divorced him, and Web site, and property address no longer any good. How many people are trying to duplicate this spark plug electrolysis that also generates water vapor pressure same time at -34 degrees late timing past TDC?? See again his S1R9A9M9 first two Youtube videos of 18HP Briggs mower engine running idle speed on plain water in carburetor. It actually sounds like a water pump! A car alternator can be belted to the crankshaft for power output. -
#2 ·
The S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly had several purposes same time. The magnetic field of 10A peak, 5A average DC causes the required time extension of spark so as water has more contact with it. It was not a step up or step-down transformer. The ignition coil on Briggs mower is called a Magnetron as it has an embedded SS trigger switch. Mowers are negative spark with positive ground. That means the spark jumps upward from metal casting to center of plug. An autotransformer with 3 leads requires a ground wire for primary. The spark would never work, as it would bypass plug and go up the side wire. That means S1r coils is just a type of electromagnet only, with end wire hooked to the negative high volts at top of plug. No adjustment of Briggs timing. Therefore, since old car engine could have distributor turned for timing change, Nathren used coils for that purpose. The cars conversions had inductance about 1.5MHenry for high volts line that also contributed to extended timing. So as the Briggs 18HP had RELAY in the plastic tub on side of engine as it dimension-ally fits. The same amps for magnetic field over plug wire also goes THROUGH spark plug. Electrolysis at plug tip electrodes for small Hydrogen is supplemented with water vapor pressure to move piston. The inductors provide also a required magnetic field at plug tips. The cars conversion has 400W 110vAC inverter box and output diode 50% duty cycle on time, while the Briggs alternators AC output to DC with diode or bridge rectification are outputting Pulsing on + off DC power at 50% duty cycle or full wave Bridge DC which has more power. The Briggs engine DUAL ALTERNATORS at low cranking speed has no output. The 12v battery ran circuit until engine was at idle RPM so as alternator would run circuit. Then battery was removed. It has 5-14.5 A capability at idle. The ohms resistance of circuit was in series as about .7-ohm MH coil, and voltage drops of the diodes for the formula I = E / R reduces the 12v battery. His car and mower engine conversions had 2-3 spark gaps in series. This kept the plugs firing, as not fouled with water. Do you understand all this?? The Champion plug comes apart so as resistor can be removed for zero ohms so as current can pass through spark plug. *****And there is a reason for the S1R coils having bare copper wire for the high volts cable section that bothered many other people over time. It has to do with GETTING cross - leakage inductance, so as there is a higher LOW volts to push the amps to plug, since plug was Champion YC12Yc 125 ohms, not zero ohms. They did not know it could come apart. The superimposed high volts over the 12v DC line allowed the higher push to get through the 125 ohms. Back to Ohms law E = I times R. Is the YouTube S1R9A9M9 Briggs water engine videos making more sense now?? The tech web site is shut down. The S1R coils copper insulated wiring came from chassis #16 gauge wiring of a riding lawn mower. Nathren's son used oscilloscope to get current reading peak of spark plug amps. Average current is about 1/2 peak amps as on a common hand meter. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Questions? -
#3 ·
Today I tried to replicate small test as described in the tech literature of S1R9A9M9 from 2008. The web forum had page regarding a side leakage inductance of wire coil wrappings that would reduce current flow on meter in 60 turns, by inducing a reactance ohms in the low voltage line, from the high voltage line. (increasing ohms) It was called "The 60 Turns Coils test".I varied the insulated high volts wire to bare copper wire. I varied the end connections for polarity of the outer coil as matching turns direction. I used a steel bolt core inside plastic tube with the 2 types ignition wire and then the 60 turns insulated wire from car battery. I had added 7kv diodes in series to protect the battery from the 6kv ignition. When repeatedly pushing the ignition single firing button switch, the amp gauge value never changed with all different adjustments. I suspect now, that the analog with needle panel current meter would not register the fast ignition impulse as impressed on the adjacent wires. A small China $35 battery/AC operated oscilloscope from E bay should be used with one ohm resistor on the GROUND side of the current line returning back to the power source. Ohms law says the volts read over resistor is the actual pulse current since I = E/ 1. The Georgia 3 technicians back about 2008 did have an oscilloscope for use.The ignition pulse returns through engine casting for ground and not interfering on the ground side to the 2nd power source. I don't doubt there was a higher volts transfer from one side to the other, since other people who did the test, had held the 2 wires wires and got shocked before.This was assuming the triple coils assembly of 2008, on the mower engine running on water in carburetor, Nathren needed the higher volts due to the spark plug being 125 ohms and can't get 10 amps to go through with just car battery. The superimposed volts over 1000 would push the 10 amps through the spark plug. Because of these negative tests I did, , it is now still possible of the bare ignition wire used to insure proper spark plug firing with the added 10 amps current. They may not of known in 2008 that Champion plugs can have the resistor removed and replaced with copper segment. The larger Briggs engines require LONG REACH Threads type plugs while smaller ones are short reach and have readily available zero ohms spark plugs. He probably , back then, could only get Champion QC12YC as long reach 125ohm instead of 4000ohms regular plug. My current series circuit can have the same resistance values without having to change them to get unchanging 6 amps. All his previous car engines had ran on 6-7 amps. In the original message board article from 2008, 20 amps on meter was reduced to 12 amps to same resistance load when cross firing was done for an experiment The only difference was, I used separate resistor for load to ground, as was done in the original 60turns test, rather than firing the amps through spark plug- AS WAS DONE IN THE S1R9A9M9 2008 You tube videos of running self powered engine of Hydrogen gas and water vapor pressure. There are voltage drops in series from my beginning 38V DC so as about 20v is left for the spark plug. My query at this time is whether to use half wave DC or Full wave DC. Both earlier conversions, cars + Briggs 18HP, had used half wave dc , as there is an off time 50% duty cycle, to make usage of the Back EMF from inductor inside relay greater than 100v.The 2008 videos had car battery 12v for starting, battery removed, then switched to alternator DC about 12-18v DC. He neglected to say it was self running . Most likely since all earlier car conversions had used certain dual coil relay sealed in vacuum per cylinder, that one was also used with the Brigg 18HP mower engine because it also fits inside the plastic deli tub on side of engine, and INDUCTORS ARE REQUIRED also . See videos again. The AI computer answered my question recently and gave a worked formula to get a back EMF of 100v from inductor with parallel diode to circuit output using 1.5MH inductor coil, 20volts, and 6 amps at fast discharge of 11 milliseconds. Inductor is also in High voltage line. This is ALSO as circuit published that was used in the car engine conversions based on speed of only INDUCTIVE TYPE ignition firing of spark plug. (The tiny electrodes of plugs may require much higher volts for common electrolysis to get sufficient Hydrogen WITH the accompanied vapor pressure to push pistons.) -
#4 ·
It was called "The 60 Turns Coil Test". I suspect now, that the analog with needle panel current meter would not register the fast ignition impulse as impressed on the adjacent wires. A small, open board type, China $35 battery operated with optional AC supply oscilloscope from E bay DSO 138 as "welded/ completed " ready to use, should be used with one ohm resistor on the GROUND side of the current line returning back to the power source. Ohms law says the volts read over resistor is the actual pulse current since I = E/ 1. The Georgia 3 technicians back about 2008 did have an old oscilloscope for use.The ignition pulse returns through engine casting for ground and not interfering on the ground side back to the 2nd power source. There would be interference and possible damage, if scope resistance probe was used on the same side as the high voltage . -
#5 ·
Notes regarding the back EMF spike higher volts for the S1R9A9M9 engine to water in carb conversion.--
After considerable time with calculator , formulas, parts values, I have been unable to verify being able to obtain minimum 100 volts back EMF to superimpose on the circuit low 38v DC. The tech web site had mentioned several times a 6-7Amps and 100v was necessary for the circuit. Therefore, the result is that half wave DC is not required as power source to make usage of the off time for the extra time space, for the volts forward.( They may have only just meant the DC to AC Inverter box power as 100v) Both car conversions and the Briggs mower engine had ran on half wave DC. Also Briggs starting mode had used 12v battery, then removed. E volts = L Henries X I Amps / t spark time in second as extended. 2 Inductor coils in series was .003Henry. The needed value came out as 180 microseconds as too fast. (not about 28 milliseconds with time extension) Timing on car engines started at late minus 34 degrees plus the inductor in High V line. The Briggs timing started at zero degrees and extended to about minus 34 degrees plus the coils inductance. At that point the Hydrogen was formed, fired, and water vapor pressure was generated that contributed to piston pressure. I built 3 different ISOLATED power supplies for upcoming bench tests. They will be all changed over now to Full Wave DC that is more energy efficient. The special relay that was used back then that contained the 2 coils in vacuum, can be seen as drawing on internet as original hand drawing by Nathren's son and also computer generated red/black/blue circuit as same thing. No back EMF volts addition is available to main circuit conversion. -
#6 ·
AI computer says the engine spark on time is different (LESS) for 6000RPM as compared with idling 700 RPM. The regular Briggs mower engine Magnetron fires about .27 Milliseconds as about 10 degrees of flywheel rotation of 6000rpm. There may be confusion on my part, as regarding length of spark time, from normal Briggs Zero to continuance of spark such as to degrees to negative minus 34 degrees ATDC, and then some. Some engines start at BEFORE TDC but the Georgia AUTO engines conversions had timing start at about negative - 34 degrees ATDC PLUS the time lag due, to the 1.5MH inductor in series with the 10kv ignition. This allowed slightly more contact time of pulse current with the water at spark plug gap according to the forum tech data. (More Hydrogen formed) The high volts plasma path initiates electrolysis for the 6-7 amps,and then reduces in voltage as idling running engine. The S1R9A9M9 triple wires elecromagnet 6-7 amp coil magnetic field over the spark plug cable causes an extension of spark time, plus inductor time. This was to simulate timing as ATDC, since mower engine ignition coils are stationary, with firing start at zero, while the older car engines had adjustable distributor for any timing change and also -34 degrees to start. There was no exact data given on the Briggs spark time with the electromagnet field. The regular plug cable hooked to section of bare 5 turns copper wire under the field stress, before going to spark plug.This did cause spark time extension to some point. Oscilloscope test would be required.Their scope data was not given to us. Half wave DC Isolated power supply could possibly still be used, as they did, in conjunction with the dual inductors - as was in the original relays per cylinder. 1.5+1.5 = 3Millihenries as both together in series with low volts, and just one 1.5MH in series was with the high volts. . The assumption was that since cars used -34 degrees , then the Briggs should be in that range also, as being a 4 stroke engine. -
#7 ·
A successful conversion of a small mower engine to run on water in carburetor, is based on several actions at the same time. The ignition type has to be inductive ignition, not capacitor discharge ignition. This means the amps flowing through the spark plug must be from a DC power supply. The speed of CDI is too fast for proper contact with water molecules to MAKE hydrogen gas and water vapor pressure. The current has to be low, so as the tiny tips of plugs don't get burned out. The best setting was called 6-7 amps DC pulse according to S1R9A9M9. Nathren , in 2005-2012 worked with the 2 technicians in the shop for testing building alternate energy related set ups. Ignition primary wires can be switched around to get the opposite output polarity high volts. One man was his son who had the same name. They both contributed tech data on the previous website that is now closed down. So you have either positive or negative high voltage, diodes facing proper direction, proper resistance in circuit based on OHMS Laws, time delay lines added for way late retarded timing to -34 degrees, required magnetic field that travels down to plug tips ,and 6-7 amps DC current. The high volts pulse is NOT good enough to provide a proper PLASMA PATH for the expected current to pass through plugs. What is used is an added small circuit that has a SMALL capacitor charged with about 200v DC against a blocking 15kv FAST diode , hooked to the capacitor output. The initial high V. pulse out, in split second ,sees a different path rather than the effort for the spark gap. It presses against the ON diode that abruptly shuts off , compressing the high volts against the diode , that then reverses back and fires spark plug.. It takes with it, the small cap discharge very fast, providing energy path for the waiting main current. The delay line is provided by wire turns over the plug wiring, and also an inductor coil of about 1.5Millihenry in the high volts line. The Briggs mower has preset non adjustable timing at TDC. The Mag field stretches the firing time out to -34 degrees along with the the extra L coil.(see data on the S1R9A9M9 triple wire coils assembly that has several purposes same time). The MAIN power supply is to be called ISOLATED grounds, as is done with an Inverter box with a transformer separate secondary side with output single diode for about 45 volts pulsing half wave DC output. No filter capacitor. Output has to go through a safety series bank of 15kv total protection diodes . This short length series diode bank rests vertically on horizontal 80mm 12v fan .3amp, with see through plastic shroud. The heat released is blown upwards away from the diodes. Either FR607 with dual set screws European type wire terminal connectors, or fast flat plastic DTV32F plastic damper diodes on narrow aluminum heat sink. The inverter isolation separates the battery ground with the output power ground. The miniature added P.S. is a 150 watt 20khz open board inverter with fast bridge rectifier you add on. Two output.wires are soldered to the appropriate terminals for 200v AC. .The high volts sees the 2 diodes in the bridge through the ON 15Kv diode. It wants to bypass the plug gap effort, by going different route seeking the opposite high V polarity terminal. But the microwave diode stops it, and reverses back to plug. This technique is US Patented, US8555867B2 and has this output diode added to the capacitor that is on a regular type CDI . The left over energy, from firing Primary of ignition coil , goes through high volts diode along and goes with with the high voltage that fires plug. (Just firing ignition does not allow extra main energy current to pass to plugs. ) The small board power has to have enough watts and current to keep recharging the minimum 45uf 400v cap in between firings. The MAIN extra energy comes from the Inverter power supply. The ignition voltage has to be extended in time of milliseconds for more contact with the water. The CDI type deals with microseconds. The 15KV diode is said to also release RADIANT ENERGY that travels down to the combustion chamber. Tesla worked with this and had written about other special circuits for that purpose. See data on Tesla Hair Pin circuit that has extra spark gap and 2 capacitors output that releases radiant Energy. The earlier Georgia S1R9A9M9 car conversions all used special dual coils relay per cylinder, and they were IN VACUUM. I just assumed that the radiant energy if provided, was enclosed and not lost in the air, so as it would travel with the circuit all the way to spark plugs. They had diode, coil, diode, coil , diode to output. The high volts came in after the 2nd diode. The L coil charge from inverter was in front of the 2nd diode. They called them the "Magic Relays'. The required magnetic field came from them and traveled down the wire. (Also, a North + South neodymium magnetic ring type magnet fits over a steel spark plug and field is also there at the tips in combustion chamber-just another idea. -
#8 ·
The S1R9A9M9 car engine and lawn mower conversions to water in carbs back in 2005-2012, required what's called PLASMA PATH for the subsequent main energy going into the spark plugs. (To make it work) The Chevy V8 had a different, stronger, ignition coil called High Energy Ignition that was about 20-40Kv, instead of 10-15KV regular coil. A low high voltage does not allow extra, unusual, heavy current to pass through spark plugs. The Elcamino had this HEI built into the 1978 distributor cap. They then switched around the primary 2 wires so as the output would be positive, rather than regular negative high voltage. The special relays were then added per cylinder with input of both low and high volts + many exterior diodes. The 400Watt inverter changed the 110v AC to half wave DC using one diode, at about 45V DC. The car ran with lower power but about 18 miles per gallon of plain water. With the late timing and magnetic field that was added, The complete set up worked.
Then Nathren (S1R9A9M9) converted the Briggs 18HP riding mower engine to water, which is on the (2) 2008 You Tube videos. The common solid state trigger with (inductive type ignition) Magnetron coil on engine produced about 10kv while under compression. It's not enough to get the required PLASMA PATH for the forthcoming 10 amps current through spark plug. The added engine parts were enclosed in small plastic tub on side of engine. The hand wound S1R triple magnetic coils assembly, accessory spark gap, and other parts that would be needed for plasma path such as ---a peaking PF high volts capacitor across plug, OR high volts doubler circuit, OR 20kv blocking diode with small cap charge circuit to about 200v that would release fast energy through spark plug previewing the main 10 amps current. A CDI high volts type ignition cannot be used as the output is in Microseconds, while the spark plug electrolysis for Hydrogen requires Milliseconds time for contact of water with the current. These options would be better as it is best to only use the lowest voltage possible for the isolated power supply for the project. If using an extended length series diodes safety protection bank of 20-25KV, that requires a higher input from power supply to counter the larger voltage loss through diodes string. This is more data for those following this issue. -
#9 ·
How to increase number of turns for same value magnetic field strength 12 volt electromagnet of original 10amps DC + 7 turns and 13 turns, being changed to 6 amps DC worth of SAME magnetic field? (Simple proportions always come out for less turns.) It uses copper core of 7 turns connected to 13 turns 4mm rod steel core all on 10 amps. There is an electronics formula method that uses different constants for air, copper, steel, iron , and ferrite cores, that may not be needed. My guess calculation may be wrong. (I was thinking on 12 turns and 24 turns) -
#10 ·
Astonishing New Update Corrections S1R9A9M9 !
S1R9A9M9 Briggs 18HP Lawn Mower Engine Ran on Hydrogen From spark plug Electrolysis And also Water Vapor Pressure with only water In Carburetor 2008! Over the years studying the technical web forum for circuit information for duplication, I had several long running notions that were ASSUMED, + WRONG!. Their S1R9A9M9 Georgia project was not entirely revealed to the public. After some other people's mishaps directly after the public demonstrations on You Tube, written data was changed, so as no duplication and no liability was left for the 2 technicians and Nathren. The original electrical circuit required magnetic field at spark plug tips, 10 amps flow DC current through spark plug, retarded timing, and High voltage from regular Magneto type Briggs ignition coil , ..... that was max 10,000 volts pulsing forward- not AC.
There was a poster Daveand5 back at that time who did a bench test with Briggs ignition coil Magnetron and separate inductor coil as taken out of previously used "Special Magic Relays" , and the hand wound triple S1R9A9M9 coils assembly, using his standard AC powered ignition coil bench test meter. That box provided internal spark gap for test as spark plug, with range high volts switch, volt meter, and push button to initiate power to ignition coil primary. He tested just the ignition and got the usual 10kv reading. When hooking up the other 2 coils and pushing button, the result was a 30-40KV reading and the 50kv range position on meter was used. The deli plastic tub holding the S1r coil and inductor and diodes also acted as a capacitance added to circuit. These were the parts as used for the 2 water powered engine demonstrations.
Now, it was always originally assumed that since the normal 4000 ohm spark plug was changed to a Champion QC12YC as 125 ohms, that over 1000 volts was required to push 10 amps through plug according to Ohms law formula. It was WRONGLY assumed that the technicians did not know at the time that the Champion Plug Brand can have the resistor removed and replaced with copper for ZERO ohms plug/racing plug. Based on that, it was WRONGLY assumed that the 1300v came from the cross leakage inductance from the Bare copper wire in the S1R wires assembly transferring high volts superimposed on the low 12volts. It was also WRONGLY assumed again that the regular ignition coil would allow passage of the main extra current through spark plug. (from temporary only 12v battery + idling speed alternator)
So........now....... here it is.......... The last spark plug WAS modified so as zero ohms resistance, so as the main 2 power sources at low voltage could push the 10 amps through it. Then , the S1R coils assembly had BARE copper wire on the high volts side for the ONLY PURPOSE for having the closest possible touching of 12v magnetic field over the high volts side line, so as the magnetic field is at tips of spark plug and ALSO forms the DELAY line for RETARDED timing of spark plug cable to about -negative 34 degrees. The old cars could have the distributor turned for timing change, but Briggs engine was factory preset at 0 TDC timing. The topic of Back EMF high volts from inductor coil came up way back in time, but was another WRONGLY assumed bit of information since the math formula didn't allow for high volts due to a WRONGLY included value of Time in 30 milliseconds. Formula E volts = L henries times di amps / dt second. I had way earlier used wrong value of spark delayed ON time rather than the actual switching time of coil L. I used Texas Instruments TI-30SLR scientific calculator and Radio Shack Electronics Data Book for the chart inductance 1.5MH + .6 ohms Reactance +30 cycles frequency. The original special relays inductors were about .6 ohm each. There is also on line calculator for L inductance and ohms resistance(Reactance) and Frequency. We are not ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS AND MAKE MISTAKES. It is the actual transistor switching turn on/off speed of the trigger module embedded in epoxy of the Briggs ignition Magnetron. The .6 microsecond time value when used in Back EM)F formula will give minimum 25000 volts and higher from the 1.5MH coil, , that superimposes on the 10kv. (.6usec = .000006 second) This much higher high volts is REQUIRED to form what's called PLASMA PATH that allows the 10 amps passage through zero ohms spark plug. You see,..... both the high volts and low volts passes through the 1.5Millihenry inductor coil and the 10 amps to the spark plug. There is a connection joint for both. A reproduction of the water powered engine would require a series diode protection bank to protect battery and added power supply from the high volts. (Not done in 2008) The PS would be an Inverter with output DC rectification so as there is what's called ISOLATED GROUNDS. (No connection of primary + secondary). All of the Georgia earlier car conversions all used 6-7 amps flow. 10 amps is too high, and will wear down plug electrodes. I modified my S1R coils assembly so as there is same magnetic field using more wire turns , but at the lesser 6 amps DC current, by using simple ratio proportion of currents 10 to 6.
After these corrections, is more likely a successful project would result, for water powered engine. The earlier 1978 Chevy V8 converted already had plasma path as it had HEI ignition with switched primary wires so as POSITIVE HIGH VOLTS to 8 spark plugs. The engine running was improved with EGR added, as recycled water vapor contains embedded COMPRESSED Nitrogen that increases efficiency. 18MPG water on about 3000 miles driven at highway speeds, at lowered horsepower. See images on internet for S1R9A9M9 coils assembly , it's specific strange winding method, similar design instructions method spelled "Megatran", other tech data, relay coil specs, and see the (2) S1R9A9M9 You Tube engine videos running on water in carburetor. See plastic tub containing parts hanging on side of Briggs 18Hp. 3 wires into tub with 2 wires out. Use 25% reduced speed watch. The extension cord mounted, was not used, nor the Inverter box, but both were just left in the background videos, from previous failed test. -
#11 ·
In general, the Magnetron - is called an autotransformer with 3 terminals. The Briggs twin cyl engine can use either 2 coils or 1 coil. I am using the dual cable type single coil, as used on 2 cyl engine, for my one cyl Briggs engine. This particular type is an actual "standard type" transformer with 4 terminals. - NOT an autotransformer. The secondary side provides pos and neg high volts to each plug on twin cyl, at the same time. I am using the Positive cable to spark plug with neg cable to ground. The FULL POTENTIAL: high volts is realized if wanting positive high volts. The other 2 methods of obtaining pos high volts requires a loss of volts due to the primary as not being part of secondary. The regular autotransformer has negative output high volts, as mounted properly. The pre 1982 Magneto transformer mounted upside down is positive high volts with loss. The aftermarket UNIVERSAL type trigger module works for either pos or neg high volts as used with MAGNETO The Briggs type separate trigger module is hard to modify for positive volts. A Magneto WITH a solid state trigger module , is called a Magnetron. The new 2023 China type and OEM RED BOX Briggs Brand type ignition Magnetrons all have the new Universal type trigger embedded, not the old style Briggs trigger. This now means, a SPARK at a lower RPM of starter mode turning of flywheel., just like in the olden days of pull cord spark! -
#12 ·
Yes, I am working on a set up similar to the 2008 S1R9A9M9 conversion of lawn mower engine on water in carburetor to water vapor pressure and Hydrogen gas with alternator recharging battery. Most people don't know that the riding mower engine has hidden free energy magnets powered alternator under flywheel. Also the ignition is run by magnet also without electricity input. Neither does the alternator require any input electricity. There was demonstrated by 2 You tube videos back at that time of spark plug electrolysis at late 34 degrees ATDC timing of self running engine. Requirement is what's called "plasma path" through spark plug of minimum about 28kv , so as the following 6-10 amps can go THROUGH spark plug. The hand wound triple wires magnetic electromagnet added allowed several functions at the same time. Also the added extra magnet wire inductor, about 1.5Millihenry, at turn off, could provide back EMF , higher than the Magnetron on the original Briggs 18HP engine. The battery started engine , then was DICONNECTED! Alternator running at lowered RPM idle speed. Nathren also converted several car engines from 2005-2012, using half wave DC from 400W Inverter box , diodes and dual inductors. Older cars, without computer , and main jet in carb hole redrilled larger about 30% for more water flow. (power mode above idle) He said about 18MPG on water in tank at lowered power level, for about 3000 miles, then locked up in security garage. See videos, my other posts, and tech data around Internet. S1R9A9M9 -
#13 ·
The closed S1R9A9M9 website, was a questions and answers message forum regarding the Georgia garage auto engine and lawnmower conversions done for water vapor pressure and hydrogen gas generation. Because of the several problems that happened after the YouTube videos were made in summer 2008, Nathren and the 2 technicians refused to allow further ACCURATE data to be released . Diagrams were changed so as attempts of successful conversions to water in carbs would never happen. Newer failed videos were made and shown.
The "Smack" went to the Georgia property after a 1000 miles drive, and filmed his examination of Briggs engine. This young mechanic was not as smart as he thought he was. Many mistakes were made by him. Of course, this is all a learning experience, and even HIS data was necessary to include in the over all tech data surrounding the successful 2008 demonstrations of spark plug electrolysis Briggs 18HP running engine, and alternator power providing engine in self running mode.
The website did not provide running list of parts, or exact wiring diagram, or small bits of information relevant to the final design circuit. There is of course, LOTS of data on internet to go over, and take it all in. Nathren even refused money for good or bad parts salvage. Clues were needed to be filled in , in between the lines. The videos can be viewed in 25% slow motion,- REVEALING needed information. You probably don't even know what spark plugs should be used. The plastic tub acted as added capacitance that raised up the INDUCTOR Flyback Back EMF high voltage to a higher level than the Magnetron, so as plasma path was available for the main inrush current THROUGH spark plug. Bench test was done as noted on website message Aug 27, 2008, on the triple wires assembly with bench ignition coil tester box for 30Kv -40Kv output. (Not usual for a standard autotransformer of 10-15KV. ) The earlier car conversions all had HEI ignition which automatically provided ionization of plug gaps for main current flow. The tab shutdown terminal on Briggs ignition coil IS an engine timing pulse of about on+ off -130volts. The fast turnoff of a transistor provided much higher back EMF of a high Millihenry inductor. Evolts = L Henries X Di amps / dt second.
Photocopies of relevant sheets were made before the website shutdown. Interested readers of past posts on same subject matter need to study "certain" details to see why the technician's work in Georgia was important. In general,- yes, an engine does not run on water , not without those special circuits and application techniques. Their V8 engine on engine stand with power generator also ran their shop on free power with water line. They figured it out back in 2005-2012. Yahoo, Groups, WaterFuel1978. What about the Wayback Machine lost publications search service? -
#14 ·
If positive only, high voltage SOURCE fires first spark gap of 8mm as 24,000 volts, doesn't the second spark gap IN SERIES to the first as "connected" smaller 2mm gap, fire at the same high voltage also to ground? 1mm/per 3000v spark in air is standard value. Seems as though volts has to go through the first as an EFFORT, just to get to the second one. This is important information needed on bench testing of electrical projects. -
#15 ·
The original Magnetron engine coil was changed to a DUAL cable ignition type that was for a 2cyl Briggs engine, and used on my Briggs 1 cyl 12HP. That one has a complete separate secondary. (Briggs 2 spark plug engines can have both single and double Magnetrons) This way the neg cable can go to ground and the +pos cable goes to spark plug. This is for using a positive type spark. The other 2 methods of positive spark have a large loss of output voltage due to being an Autotransformer type with prim as part of the sec side. I also super glued on several thin 20mm length neodymium magnets on the flywheel magnet to get stronger output high voltage. I also added ring type neodymium magnet on spark plug so as there is a guaranteed magnetic field at plug tips. Currently reworking the homemade vacuum box for spark processor as diode, L coil 1.5Mh , 221PF 30kv capacitor, and Tesla magnetic spark gap with N + S button neodymium magnets opposite Tesla type carbon and aluminum electrodes gaped about 5mm.. This is used in conjunction with the S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly so there is the required accessory spark gap on lawn mower engine. Engine under compression has higher voltage needed than in air. Therefore the protection series diode bank needs to be about 25-30KV fast diodes capable of 6 amps minimum. The S1r coils have insulated Magnet wire #12 gauge , that is acted upon by amps magnetic field coils over it so as the spark time is extended from 0-neg 34degrees late timing. (See design method on internet images and the one called Megatran.
The 1978 V8 that ran on water in carb had the HEI ignition coil that's mounted in top of distributor switched around so as the 2 wires on primary side was set for POSITIVE high v. output from ignition coil. They said about 24000volts at 6-7 amps through spark plug needed. The generated water vapor pressure along with hydrogen gas electrolysis kept engine self running and then got 18miles per gallon with water in tank. The original car engine tests in Georgia 2005 - on, used this following circuit that was part of the dual coil relays in vacuum per cylinder. Diode half wave DC for about 45 volts DC to junction to l inductor about 1.5Millihenty, to joint of hi v. input to L coil inductor 1.5Mh to diode to spark plug. There was a bypass diode at 1st junction over to spark plug. Wire went from exact bottom of spark plug back to diode to return line to power supply inverter. 400W 110v AC , 60cycles, type called power on board.The 60 cycles relays were in vacuum + extra diodes mounted on outside screw terminals. I made the processor box to replace THE UNAVAILABLE RELAYS. The 3 technicians back then called them "The Magic Relays", since other replacements did not wok, or were not efficient to run engine smoothly. They also found out that EGR engines ran way better, due to the recycled Nitrogen from the exhaust. I studied the now closed website. Questions? -
#16 ·
This work is a steady long running duplication project . The 2008 demonstration of self running Briggs engine used car battery start with then disconnected , so as idling engine ran on the alternator only with water applied to carburetor. The 3 technicians at that time were the ones who discovered that 2 things operated the engine same time, as water vapor pressure along with hydrogen gas formation . The additional Nitrogen from EGR increases efficiency as on the 2 earlier chevy V8 successful conversions done. It was verified also that the special relays had contributed to the greater efficiency. (NOT used as you normally would at all) and is related to the Radiant Energy applied from either or both methodologies, as diode release from the Hi V against on diode that closes fast, producing radiant energy with current following, or the vacuum present that causes containment of the Radiant Energy that then follows the wiring to plug, They just knew the system worked. The Magnetron ignition is self powered by external magnet. The alternator is self powered by 12 magnets. The timing has to be greatly adjusted as late to -34 degrees. A magnetic field has to be present at the plug tips. They believed that the diodes kept the cylinders HOLDING the system until the next firing cycle. The cars operated on 6-7 amps draw at about 24kv, as from oscilloscope probe tests. The Briggs engine was on 10 amps draw as running engine , but due to reactance added to the low volts line, from the high side, the input had to be higher as about 16amps. The website example showed a spark wiring demonstration called "the 60 turns coil test". 20amp dc battery draw to a separate load was reduced to 12amps flow with the HIV field interferes with the 12v line side. (60 turns over plug hi v cable wire with steel rod core for the electromagnet. The Georgia technicians stopped their final open report to public since no more exact relays were available to purchase. Not only that, many others were hurt trying to duplicate a set up and didn't know what they were doing. You Tube S1R9A9M9 (2) YouTube videos Questions? -
#17 ·
The Georgia engines shop work from 2005-2012 was experimental, and well known in the rural area where Nathren and the 2 techs had their commercial electricians work base. The alternate energy set ups were done in spare time. As was stated in my earlier paragraph, the relays per cylinder were not used as originally made for. No clicking action, not used as original switching latching method . The interior inductors were used both on high voltage and low volts at same time for purpose of extension of spark time based on inductance value. There may have been dual pulses involved based on the parallel side diode path. Wire coils hold a temporary charge as well as capacitors. The vacuum chamber prevents leakage of energy and electrical contacts react better. The cars tested with water flow had greatly reduced horsepower, but could be used as slower to get up to highway speeds. . The 1978 El Camino was said to have went 3000 miles before being locked up. The car engines converted required the carburetor main jets to be redrilled about 30% larger for more water flow. This for the power mode , which is above idle speed. The drawing of that strange specific relay and it's connections is on Internet as used back at that time, as well as the schematic of its use on engines. I saw 6 sets of contacts, switching armature , and with dual coils with diode built inbetween. This original purpose was for electromechanical Georgia traffic signals switching , pole electrical box with .6ohm each coil from main input pole line 220v AC 60 cycles. The signal lights were 6v auto bulbs up above. Extreme high electrical efficiency for all temperatures and weather conditions sealed in vacuum. There was no part numer or name plate for any purchasing. Black Bakalite housing on all 15 surplus units purchased in Georgia. All search teams failed to find any more. It was assumed they were a special manufacturing order. This is why no final electrical report was issued to the public on the web forum. -
#18 ·
It's finally coming together as to theory on the wiring set up similar to the S1R9A9M9 demonstrations of lawn mower engine running on water in carburetor summer 2008. My original idea had to do with the triple wires coils as a step down/up transformer with wire to ground. This would be seem reasonable since there was a possible wire to ground. However, the use of original ignition coil is negative high volts with positive ground. With high v. at metal ground of engine, it would never jump upward of spark gap. It would bypass the spark plug for sure, and travel up any side wire, resistor, or capacitor lead, since the gap requires an effort. Electricity always travels the easiest way.
Now, when examining the old 2005-2012 schematic from Georgia on the car conversions of water in carb as successful, I noticed the polarity was referenced twice as positive high voltage. After purchasing a Chevy HEI coil, the primary wires are exposed, and can be switched around from normal Negative to positive high volts. The HEI ignition is high enough to form it's own plasma path for the following 6-7 pulse amps from the half wave DC Inverter. The regular mower ignition Magnetron as modified for positive only had reduced output volts as done 2 ways, as tested was about 10kv, DC after diode. It's not enough for a good plasma path and would not allow engine to run on water.
I then went back to repeat the original You Tube videos #1+2, at 25% speed and noticed the rusted ignition coil had shiny new screws, which made me suspicious. This means it was removed, and the screws were lost. After the videos , engine was put back the way it was in garage with original ignition with new screws on it. Then I noticed that Briggs 2 plug engines can have 1 or 2 ignition coils on them. The single coil type with (2) cables for each plug fires negative and positive high volts the same time. Then I surmised that this is how the Briggs 18HP was changed to positive high volts ignition, wire negative to ground, just like the earlier cars had positive high volts. This way IT IS ALLOWED TO HAVE an accessory WIRE TO GROUND, and the ignition would always fire the spark plug. The special dual cable type outputs FULL high volts without loss and is a standard type secondary side winding that is not connected to the primary side as in regular AUTOTRANSFORMER type.
The next observation of the original design was mine alone- no one else ever figured this out except me. Right after the 2 videos were done in Georgia, The S1R triple coils assembly was removed and taken into house and photographed on blue graph paper. The circle was traced around the plastic deli tub that it was in , on side of engine. Nathren stated in message there were other parts in tub used as associated with this fuel conversion. (not mentioned) A picture blow up of the removed electromagnet coils shows something extremely important. The joint of the red and gray wires is covered in black electrical tape. There is a stub cut off wire with copper strands sticking out of joint, as 3 wires.
Later Nathren said he was going to show us in video on how to special hand wind this coil unit. Get this,- He only took apart the "verified" original triple wires on camera, not putting one together as a new one like he should of. But what's important is the very first part of video. The same unit placed on back porch table had been READJUSTED. The center stub cut off wire was removed and new black tape was re covering up the joint. He didn't want that piece shown dropped off during disassembly. This tap point on the S1r triple coils assembly is what was needed with separate 1.5Millihenry inductor coil, in the tub, to direct ground. See no#1 +#2 video for the brown extension cord hooked to side of tub, Inverter box, and direct to bottom of spark plug. The wires like that were on all the car conversions as return line back to power source Inverter. The "plug" end on cord was BRIDGED across so as the extension cord twin lead was actually A VERY LONG CONNECTING SINGLE WIRE). This is what was connected to the inductor. When the positive ignition fires plug downward to ground, the side inductor coil discharges as back EMF flyback pulse following the spark, and provides the proper plasma path that the ignition coil could not. The diodes in between plug and side coil are in an ON STATE . The rushing in Hi V pulse tries to avoid the plug GAP and "sees" the other ground point through the diode and side coil. Right after the ATTEMPT forward against diode, the diode shuts off so as it reverses and fires spark plug. The side coil then releases it's fast higher volts back EMF to the plug gap providing the plasma path. At that point the main current 6-7 amps can flow through spark plug.
The fuel generated is water vapor pressure and hydrogen gas from spark plug electrolysis. The original 4000 ohm spark plug was changed to Champion brand 125ohm QC12YC plug so as the internal resistor can be removed for zero ohms spark plug. Proper late timing is required at about -neg 34 degrees. The electromagnet extends the engine timing from zero degrees to about -34 degrees before shutting off. This is the invention of the 2 Georgia technicians and Nathren (S1R9A9M9) from 2005-2012.
I am currently doing ignition coil tests with homemade horizontal spinning wood flywheel with flywheel magnet and opposite balancing lead washers . The brass screw + magnet is matched with brass screw and easily cut lead washers as both even weights as tested on digital gram weigh scales. The auto type heater blower 12 v motor spins with 10A variable DC SS speed control module. The Briggs coil is mounted on used coil bracket so as close enough for an air gap of .012inch using brass non magnetic feeler gauges. This set up allows indoor testing and not causing undue stress on an engine , and repeated recharging of battery due to the huge starter motor pull of amps on lawnmower $35 battery. I have list of 10 tests needed to be done with this. -
#19 ·
More tech notes for those who are still following this subject - if you recall, regarding the original S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly from 2008 lawn mower that ran on water in carb, the construction of unit was quite peculiar and caused many peoples reactions and disbelief. The photos are still on internet for review. The high volts side used bare copper wire. The lower half of electromagnet had no steel core. The reference was that the engine ran on negative high voltage. You may also be thinking about inventions only partly shown to public, without exacting information or changes done before actual release photos. After many had failed to duplicate the process with wire turns, voltage source and amps load, I surmised that the originator had probably used a only similar, but DIFFERENTLY constructed S1R coils assembly. Most US Patents and drawings are only a high % accurate so as not to divulge propriety information. Therefore , I am presenting here today further data for you to chew on. I am still actively pursuing this project. The blow up of original unit showed a stub- frayed wire cut off from the joint of (2) #14 gauge wires. When Nathren's next video came out he had removed the stub and re taped up the joint, .... before the take apart video was done. I had way earlier dismissed the notion of a transformer, since a High Positive volts from ground would not allow spark plug firing with a side line wire to ground.(Electricity always goes up a bypass if it is less effort that way.) The study of documents regarding the earlier cars conversions showed that the ignition coils were firing positive voltage to ground. Why not the Briggs 18hp engine? The change over to a double cable Magnetron as used on the twin cylinders allows the use of one cable as ground and the other as positive high volts on 1 cylinder lawn mower. . This now allows a Sir coils assembly to be a possible transformer. Next, - The car conversions all had very high output ignition coils as minimum 24KV or higher. The Briggs Magnetron is only 6-15Kv and not AC output- Very hard to raise up the voltage. (cap+diodes multiplier can't be used.) What was needed was a PLASMA PATH extra method applied . This is either a back EMF higher high voltage from charged inductor 1.5MH or a charged capacitor with output time constant to last the required .030second. I took another look at the data from the expired old web forum , and I remembered the page regarding the (60 turns coil test). The talk was about reactance ohms added on low volts side, from high volts side, that causes the 16 amps capability input to reduce down to the 10 amps going through spark plug. The demonstrated engine videos both started on 12v battery. Nathren said that all information was in the web forum to duplicate his work!!!!!!!!!!!!. A final data sheets set was not going to be released, due to too many people getting hurt tryin to do the conversion. So now, after reviewing all this, I surmised that the other 2 methodologies for getting plasma path WOULD NOT HAVE THE PARTS ACTUALLY FIT INSIDE THE small PLASTIC DELI TUB ON SIDE OF ENGINE IN THE 2 You tube VIDEOS.What was left ,- if regarding positive high volts firing downward to ground negative of spark plug, was that an ignition coil CAN fire into another step up pulse transformer to send an even higher high voltage output! Now get this,---- The original S1R coils as used in the (2 )2008 videos is not what was shown to the public. A similar one may have been actually used.- but different construction. I say 13 turns primary, and 47 turns as PART of secondary as full secondary is 60 turns total,(13+47) as being a 3 terminal autotransformer step up type. The end of primary goes to accessory spark gap in the tub, that fires to an outside ground wire. There was a cable to ground in the videos. The 2nd triple wires assembly shown was notorious with bare wire, missing lower core present, no talk about the joint, nor the outside cable,, or actual polarity of spark. With about 6kv firing the first primary spark,3kv per 1mm gap, the ratio step up could be greater than 24kv. (ratio 1;4.6) This similar unit will fit in the plastic tub, and form the proper plasma path for the subsequent 10 amps through plug. I also surmised that he dropped the number 4 on the triple wires assembly and reduced the length of core steel. 13+ 7 = 20turns. All his changes disallowed a transformer effect and not enough wire turns. The current model I made is for 6 amps as all the other car engines conversions in Georgia had used 6-7amps flow. The number of turns of the added on #16 wire required magnetic coil on top, was increased by same ratio as amp decrease. , so as 13 to 22 turns. The magnetic field travels down to spark plug chamber to enhance the reaction. I also had put neodymium ring magnet on steel spark plug.
I am currently looking into possibility/ not possibility, using bundled thin soft iron wires together in vinyl hose to use as iron core , rather than steel long screw. The residual magnetism removes itself in between pulses- contrary to steel nail or rods.Residual may be needed. I'm using floral wrapping iron wire roll.
In the original (2) S1R9A9M9 You tube videos, the battery was disconnected after engine idling, and the under flywheel alternator provided the electric flow from the free energy 13 magnets. Nathren neglected to say it was self running on the developed water vapor pressure and Hydrogen gas at spark plug electrolysis. -
#20 ·
Speculation On Nathren's Grand Deception ! -- His Briggs Engine Did Run On Water during demonstrated two 2008 Youtube videos! During research for my electrical conversion project to duplicate Nathren's electrical circuit, at stage 5 of 6, this current level has to do with what's called "waste spark". We need to protect our battery from the high voltage. That wasn't done during 2008, and him and his son were in danger of battery acid expulsion. The engine timing fires spark plug WITH conductive solution at plug tips. During waste spark firing, there is no fluid, only dry plug gap. This forms way higher voltage that can reflect back to battery. I was going to use power supply with diode bank for plug firing at protection level of 15KV. The Electromagnet was to be on all the time to ground, according to Nathren. EXACTLY AFTER the 2 videos came out, he answered questions truthfully.on the web forum and the comments section of Youtube videos for VERY SHORT PERIOD ONLY. Soon after, all answers were wrong, and his circuit comments would not operate any engine on water. Not only that, the rest of the needed parts were not told about that were in the plastic tub on side of the Briggs 18HP engine. Several non-knowledgeable people were hurt trying to duplicate system, so at that point,he got in trouble, he gave no more truthful data, and made false answers, even to me. . This is what has impeded interested parties who were also wanting to get into the conversion.
He said the engine was purchased new for a demonstration. Close up pictures show dusty, worn paint, used engine. He then said mower engine came from a used riding mower. It was requested for the part number of engine, so as specifications would be known AND about the alternator. Specs were not given. He said that engine had no alternator. It is well known that all riding lawn mowers have an alternator, and during the 2 earlier videos, the engine 10 amps current had to come from the alternator for the power used, after the battery was completely disconnected..That particular engine had "dual" 1/2 alternators, so that with bridge rectifier mounted, 10 amps could be realized. I have the same type used engine with same alternator..
The earlier 2005-2008 conversions done on 4cyl, 6cyl, 8 cyl cars, and 4 cyl tractor engines all used the 400Watt inverter and dual coils relay per cylinder. The ONLY ground for system was through the spark plug to NEGATIVE ground. There was no separate electromagnet to separate ground on these previous engines. With POSITIVE high volts to negative ground, the plugs would always fire. But never with positive ground , negative high volts., with same time other connections to ground causing plug BYPASS. The ignitions were changed to positive high volts. On the Briggs engine, he said the electromagnet had to be on all the time to separate ground. With negative NORMAL high volts, the single spark plug would never fire.The very EARLY comment said the power current wire was connected to high volts and spark plug top, so as 10 amps would flow through spark plug. The later stories and his other videos DID NOT HAVE THAT! We now know that POWER current HAS TO FLOW THROUGH SPARK PLUG!, not as an induction mode type.as he later said. His later statements were to get people away from a working engine by keeping power current away from plug and through a separate resistance load to ground. The Nathren deception continued with the message board and videos messages section.
It is now believed that separate electromagnet is not necessary on Briggs engine, since all previous engines DID NOT HAVE ANY! Previous engines conversions did not have the S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly with electromagnet AT THAT TIME period! The necessary magnetic field of the coils is only when plug fires to ground!
There are 2 solutions to the waste spark problem. (1) No separate electromagnet used, with its problem of high voltage danger to battery. (2) Use of electronic circuit counter IC circuit for fire+ not fire, to eliminate point where plug is dry, and greatly increases voltage hazard. A Separate diodes bank to protect separate battery circuit loses 10.5 volts from 12 volts. Just Integrating the power supply output and battery output same time through same diode bank protection - still loses 10 volts from battery. Note- the strength of magnetic field from an electromagnet only has to do with number of wire turns, size of coil and the amps current involved. Nothing about voltage in main formula. - But the wattage is lost.
Therefore : - Power supply of 6 amps flow and separate 4.5 amps electromagnet flow from the battery is reduced down to just 6 amps forward flow through spark plug from power supply only! Nathren and his son, and 2 technicians in their shop used 6-7 amps through all the cars engines spark plugs. 10 amps is not necessary as used on the mower engine of 2008. You can still see the 2008 S1R9A9M9 Youtube videos of his engine running on hydrogen gas from spark plug electrolysis and water vapor pressure contributing to piston compression. -
#21 ·
The electrical circuit for the water powered mower engine has several voltages involved that you have to be aware of.
(1) fully charged battery voltage
(2) Inverter box secondary AC voltage
(3) AC voltage reducer box voltage output
(4) Full wave rectification DC block output power voltage
(5) Voltage drop loss adjustable power resistor
(6) Voltage drop loss 15KV series diode bank
(7) electrical load spark plug conductive electrolysis cell voltage across
(
Ground return line 1 ohm resistor voltage drop back to Inverter ground terminal
(9) In series "added" voltage from cross leakage induction volts from S1R triple coils assembly
(10) Briggs alternator ring output AC voltage
(11) Briggs alternator voltage regulator output DC charging voltage
(12) voltage drop loss from accessory in series spark gap with spark plug
(13) voltage drop loss from inductor 1.5-1.75 mh in power line
E/I=R, E/R=I , I X R =E Voltage drops in series add up to supply volts.
An electrical meter as multiple neon bulbs ,or digital readout voltmeter will only register the highest voltage at top of the spark plug. What's there, is about 35vDC, 100v added DC, and variable high ignition volts DC. What is also needed, is to measure separately and KNOW the crossover leakage volts that ALLOWS the spark plug cell to make sufficient hydrogen gas. This voltage is adjustable by using the common spark tester with screw that adjusts ,as used by auto mechanics This is the accessory spark gap.and is in line with the 2nd inductor, and spark plug to ground. ( With the plug gap covered in conductive electrolyte such as baking soda water, salt, the plug gap greatly reduces the high voltage. The 1st spark gap can regulate the final gap, and also the needed induction crossover volts that pushes faster hydrogen gas.The S1R9A9M9 coils has the 2 red wire ends that receive the induced voltage. The GAP adjustment is done to get this induced voltage sufficiently high. Remember, the diodes bank must cover the highest volts ,so as no return damage to inverter or battery. The Briggs engine is called a 4 cycle and has what's called WASTE SPARK. During that spark period time of flywheel rotation, of no moisture plug gap,and is an open air gap, the ignition voltage jumps up way higher. Now you see this is a more involved design for a bench set up. Temporarily, I use a small old style Harley motorcycle ignition coil can with push/release points switch and condenser for immediate testing with high voltage.
On the old cars with high mileage, after dark, you lift the hood and see sparking going on with the ignition wires. They are worn out from overheating and needed replacing. The engine was running uneven because of crossover induction. The 1978Waterfuel web forum, that's now shut down, had page reference to car ignition thick insulation cable wire wrapped with 60 turns insulated hook up wire for purposely getting crossover leakage volts! -
#22 ·
More data for those who may be following this S1R9A9M9 project.-
I just mounted a small Briggs engine to test compression "USES". Tests done way earlier by another researcher (on Internet), found out that a capacitor charged to 200v and 500uf and fired into salt water at spark plug would move lawnmower engine piston one revolution. The high volts didn't seem to matter to him, though. Notes gathered from the S1R website indicated that a crossover leakage inductance voltage , possibly capacitance effect, did transfer => 90 volts, as indicated by glowing neon bub. Other parts were indicated as used in the 2 SUCCESSFUL 2008 Youtube videos, but not told. I assumed it was diodes and an accessory spark gap. NOW I see a good reason for it. Spark gaps in air are as 3Kv /mm gap. 2mm plug in air is about 6Kv. Under engine compression that would be about 6 X 5 as ratio of a Briggs engine compression is 5.8 :1. Now, if an in line series gap is ADDED , the spark plug stays at the same voltage. (Plugs only fire at the least volts needed) The sum of 2 gap voltages equals the beginning ignition coil output. If the total is INCREASED, then the crossover volts (of the S1R coils assembly) increases past 90volts, so as being in series with the amps current line through the spark plug also. 100-200volts can be realized with the low volts included. Nathren and other 2 shop technicians had said several times, about 100v and 6-10 amps is needed for the electrical circuit for creating sufficient hydrogen gas fuel from spark plug electrolysis. Salt water cell at plug TIPS is about 22 ohms resistance - not zero ohms, and requires higher volts than 12-18vDC to push 6 amps through the tiny electrodes. E / I = R, I needed X R cell = required voltage. E total high volts = E1 plus E2 spark gaps.
Other statements regarding the earlier car engine water conversions in Georgia had told of a special test done with 60 TURNS insulated wire over a spark plug wire and getting crossover volts. This technique may have been used on all those car engines, along with EGR. (They had also talked about interference reactance ohms from crossover leakage as a connected circuit of 12v and 20 amps, through amp gauge being reduced to 12 amps flow through load resistor when plug was fired.)! What do you think now? (Closing in on The 2008 Georgia Briggs 18HP engine that ran on water.) -
#23 ·
Since the spark plug electrolyte cell requires over 100 volts added on / superimposed in series to the low volts power supply to get the 6-7 amps through spark plug of about 22 ohms CELL, there is another method to do this without relying on the leakage voltage transfer from the S1R9A9M9 triple wires electromagnet assembly section. A purchased miniature power supply module as DC to DC converter, high frequency, 150W, with fast rectification, can be used with power resistor ON THE INPUT BATTERY side to limit the power/ current way down, and get mostly the higher voltage needed ON THE OUTPUT SIDE. It's called isolated- "150W dc12v to AC220v power inverter module. The small board HAS built in optional use, full wave rectification output .The selection jumper also allows for 110/220v . This is the upgraded, now better unit on Ebay. The regular box Inverter to DC use higher wattage power supply will send the amps + wattage, while the small P.S. board supplies the superimposed higher DC volts required to push the 6-7 amps through the ohms resistance of spark plug electrolysis electrolyte at those plug TIPS. Since the small board is basically an Inverter with no connection between primary side and secondary, it's called ISOLATED as per the grounds connection. The main unit P.S. would be also like that. (Resistor cannot be on secondary side, as it would also limit the main other previously adjusted P.S. The LOAD cell is the resistance for BOTH.) Again, there is also what's called waste spark, which during that time of flywheel rotation, the intake valve of Briggs engine is closed and no significant water at plug.
(Your flashlight has multiple DC volts batteries in series to raise up voltage for the bulb.) -
#24 ·
This was a circuit from 2008 on a mower engine that purposely allowed crossover leakage induction volts from a 5 turn wire onto an adjacent 7 turn wire, WITHOUT core, so as the in series volts is increased from 12 to over 100 volts. Was this brilliant, or just a cheap method of increasing a lower voltage. See photo of S1R9A9M9 triple wires assembly electromagnet on internet images. The LOWER only section of 13 turns had steel core. This was in reference to HIS (2) YouTube videos that can still be seen. . (On old, worn out ignition cables, they spark across in the dark at night when you lift the hood on bad ignition cables.) He put the inserted section with spark plug cable to use for his project in 2008. Is this type called capacitive voltage induction? My first test on this showed a neon bulb glowing with at least 90v, FROM ONLY THE 7 TURNS WIRING, not electrically connected to 5 turns.
The next step is to add accessory spark gap, which does not affect spark plug firing. As the input Ignition coil is then forced to INCREASE to compensate, the leakage crossover volts would also go higher. ( I believe NOW THIS IS THE SECRET how Nathren and the 2 technicians successfully ran the Briggs engine on hydrogen generated in combustion chamber electrolysis and fired for piston force. If this is so, then all their other car conversions done earlier had made use of stated 60 turns over EXISTING spark plug cables!! E higher volts needed = 6–7 amps X Resistance of tiny salt water cell at plug tips.- about 23 ohms. Briggs had 5 turns bare #12 wrapped with 7 turns insulated, and then for the other autos,- thick insulated ignition cable wrapped with 60 turns insulated #14 gauge wire coil! What do you think? -
#25 ·
Where did they get their information from? To answer your question, I am referred back to the thousands of messages on the now shut down web forum, used by Nathren and others. Nathren was a non-technical person - at all., little formal education, just hands on work knowledge. His son, also Nathren, WAS a technician and worked for an electrical company. They had a part time machine shop/garage, where the other 2 TECHNICIANS also worked in their spare time on alternate energy systems-solar, and electrolysis for hydrogen. Therefore, all 4 of them tinkered in the garage/workshop in Georgia. So now you know who designed and built the electrical circuits for the different car conversions and the mower engine that ran on THE SAME type spark plug electrolysis for hydrogen and water vapor pressure. On the Waterfuel1978 forum, Nathren signed in as S1R9A9M9, and son signed in as Nathren. You could tell the big difference by the technical quality of paragraphs written. ( The code S1R9A9M9 came from a metal machining job done by contract for small part used on a previous NASA mission to space. It is a reference to MARS 1999 spelled backwards. That's what he had used to start up the original web forum to tell the public about the TECHNICIAN"S work on alternate energy projects)