rickoff

If you try acetone, use the high quality stuff that you can purchase from a beauty supply company, rather than the stuff sold at hardware stores.

Reply to Jetijs and all

Thanks, Jetijs

I don't know how I missed finding that before. I downloaded the pdf file of the patent application, and I like what I see. I believe that there really is enough information given in the document to enable a working replication. I'd be happy to devote whatever time I can to a replication effort.

If anyone else is interested in working on a replication prototype, please step forward. If so, I suggest that a new thread be started, named "Perendev Magnetic Motor Replication Project," so that it is clearly understood what the thread is all about. With that said, I will go ahead and start the thread, show links to the Perendev video and the pdf file, explain in simple terms what needs to be done, and make a proposal for dividing up the work of the initial stage between those who will volunteer their efforts. I'll work on that and have it posted within the next 2 days. In the meantime, anyone interested in joining the effort should step forward in this thread and let their interest be known. The initial stage will concern determining, as closely as is possible, all of the preferred design characteristics of the model as stated and illustrated in the pdf document. So this would be a good time for each of us to dig into the pdf, and make notes of everything that should be considered in a replication design. When I have the thread started, post your findings so that we can compare notes and reach an agreement as to what the pdf design factors are, which factors are the most critical, and how a prototype might best be constructed to allow for optimal fine tuning of the device. Keep in mind that, in a replication prototype, every critical factor should allow for adjustment in order to obtain the best results. In other words, the magnets and shielding must be fully adjustable in the rotor and stator bores, the angle of the bores must also be made adjustable (within at least a 30 to 35 degree range, which is the "preferred" angle), the alignment of the rotor bore offsets between the 3 rotors should be fully adjustable within a decided range, and the operational gap between the stators and rotors (when the stator "clamshell" is fully closed) must also be adjustable. Another thing to consider is the ratio of spacing between the stator bores in relation to the spacing of the rotor bores. The spacing is different, and not just because the stators are larger in circumference than the rotors. In other words, if the stators were continously encircling the rotors, all of the stator bores should not all align perfectly with a corresponding rotor bore. This much is stated in the pdf, although the actual alignment difference is not even hinted at. Therefore, this design factor must allow for a relatively wide lattitude of adjustment in the prototype. The design does mention the type and size of the magnets, and the correct shielding materials (there are 2 layers of shielding on each magnet), and we can see that there are 18 magnet positions in each rotor - although some of the bores, according to the pdf, will best be left empty. So think about these factors, and whatever else that you consider will be critical to tuning this in for best results. We don't want to just build something that will revolve on its own - we want to maximize the rpm and torque potential of the device. Once the prototype is constructed and optimally adjusted, these optimum specs can be measured and duplicated in a more solid rotor and stator design (such as shown in the Perendev video) with only minimal adjustments required.

Thanks for reading through this and giving it some consideration. I hope that this can generate some real interest and participation. If we can build a successful replication, it should be the cats meow of home electric power generation, and should also jump start some successful electric vehicle projects.

Best to all,

Rick

Reply to W:

The nitrogen motor is for mines, but the others are Magnetic motors. They are normally started by an electric motor using battery power, and then go into self-running mode. You certainly wouldn't need a 100kw unit for your home power needs. One tenth of that would be more than enough. I suppose you could sell power to your neighbors, or let the power company pay you for the excess power you produce, and that would help pay for the unit. Way better if you could build one, though.

I like the Perendev demo video, and it seems like a relatively simple and straight-forward device. Too bad the quality and resolution isn't that great, as it is hard to see much detail. Does anyone have a link to the patent, where some diagrams can be found?

Regards,

Rick

Yes, that would burn too fast unless you had some way to control it, such as a very small orifice and/or limited air exposure. It's interesting to note that hydrogen lamps were available pre 1800. See the Volta Hydrogen lamp of 1777 here: Misc. Science
See also the following link for a description of Volta's ingenious method of lighting and burning the Hydrogen.
IMSS - Multimedia Catalogue - Animations - Volta's lamp-lighter
Regards,

Rick

reply to monsterman:

I didn't see the documentary, but may have an explanation of sorts. Potassium can react violently with water to evolve Hydrogen, and is likely to ignite the Hydrogen. You can't extinguish such a flame by dousing it with more water, because that's just like adding gasoline to a fire. That's why potassium has to be stored very carefully, away from any combustibles, and is usually stored under mineral oil, in an airtight container, for a limit of 3 months. Any longer than that and it is likely to explode when uncovered. Anyways, potassium could be wrapped around any wooden or metal rod, and dipped into water to start the reaction. So this could very possibly be the method that you saw demonstrated.

Best regards, Rick

Reply to Monsterman

Hi Monster,

Some exhorbitant costs to lease this equipment. What gets me most is that the inventor made a working model of the design 39 years ago, and just think of where we would be at today if he had shared it freely.

Rick

Reply to jibbguy:

You hit the nail right on the head with that Jib. Some excellent humor, and certainly also some plausible scenarios you have outlined to put forth a few explanations. And certainly better than any explanations the Lutec folks have come up with so far. Whether or not their device can do anything truly useful, and at a cost that would be affordable to the average homeowner, remains to be seen. In researching the patent several months ago, I didn't see anything that hadn't already been introduced by others and already become public knowledge. Lutec's home page makes it clear that their motive is to line up investors willing to part with at least $100,000, and few - if any investors - are lining up. That's quite understandable given the amount of controversy, including undeniably overstated claims, reluctance to allow independent scientific testing, and claims by Robert Adams of patent infingement. More on that here, in Adams' own wording: Aethmogen - Australian Adams Motor

I don't think we will be seeing the Lutec device, or any other such device, being made available to consumers (at a realistically affordable price) any time in the near future. Certainly the Internet abounds with examples of other such devices, but none (to my knowledge) that are being mass produced. What I would be more interested in hearing about, is an explanation as to what became of the Troy Reed "SURGE Technology" unit shown in the following video, which could be used for home power or to power an electric car conversion:
YouTube - ELECTRIC VEHICLE SURGE TECHNOLOGY NO BATTERIES NO GAS
Reed received a patent for his device, which can be seen here:
United States Patent: 5742111
The patent assignee is SURGE POWER CORPORATION of Tulsa Oklahoma, evidently a corporation formed by Troy Reed and actor Dennis Weaver.
According to Rex Research, Reed's latest Magnetic Motor is about 20 inches in diameter, weighs under 200 lbs, has only one moving part, and runs a 7,000 watt generator. Sounds good to me. Read the Rex Research article here:Reed Magnetic Motor

Anyone have more info?

Best regards, Rick

Re: Home Generator

These videos have been on the Internet for quite some time, and the US patent (06630806) was granted 5 years ago, but Lutec still doesn't have a product available for purchase. It appears that the Lutec 1000 generator, which is supposedly capable of a 1000 watt output, is only capable of a sustained output at about 200 watts (about enough to power 2 or 3 light bulbs). And even at 1,000 watts output, that won't be enough to run a modern household. To learn more about the Lutec controversy, go here:
Directory:Lutec - PESWiki

Rick

$6,000?

$6,000? Is that really correct, or do you have an extra zero in there by error? What type of device are you using, what mpg are you consistently achieving, and what is the measured lpm of Hydroxy output?

Must be quite a monster! Any photos?


Rick

Re: Link

Sorry guys,

It appears that the file has been removed. It was posted at the waterfuel1978 site, which is operated by S1r9a9m9. Lately he has been deleting anything on his forum that is not directly related to his topic.

Try this link instead:



Rick

Reply to Druide:

That's because you must be signed in to Yahoo Groups before you attempt to access the link.

Rick

Reply to Jetijs:

You're welcome, Jetijs. I'm glad you found the link useful. Yes, these type of heaters are rather simple to construct. Basically, it is a cavitation type heater, where disturbance of the liquid produces heat. The writers of the document found at the link suggest that something else is also going on inside, and that may actually be so, but doesn't seem to have been proven yet. In any case, it definitely works to create and transfer heat. The heat transfer effect to the inner container could be likened to holding a styrofoam cup of hot coffee, with a closed lid, in your hand. If you move your hand in a horizontal circular motion, to swirl the coffee, the cup gets hot very quickly and passes this heat to your hand. With your inner container, the heat is passed to the air inside. You may need to construct a metal bottom plate for each of the cylinders to avoid overheating problems. It will be interesting to see how your experiments go using different liquids.

Have fun, and keep us posted,

Rick

Click this link to view an interactive diagram showing the actual system used for generating and utilizing Hydrogen to supply all energy needs of a building which is located about a half hour's drive from where I live. Pathways to a Sustainable Future

Keep in mind that this is an actual system which is currently in use, and not just a concept. Some great ideas here for anyone to incorporate in a new or existing home. I plan to visit the building sometime in the next few weeks, and will take along a camera. If others are interested, I will gladly post many of the photos on my SkyDrive and provide a link to them in this thread.

Best to all,

Rick

Re: fuel additive recipe

W, that mix actually does produce positive results, although not as good as the RXP Gen II. I tried it about a year ago, and it did incease my gas mileage by about 10% initially without doing anything else. I discontinued it after the trial, though, because the benefit seemed mostly offset by the cost factor. That could be a different story now, though, with the price of gas being what it is. If you do experiment with it, don't use the acetone you would find at a hardware or paint store. Instead, go to your local beauty salon and get a few ounces of the high grade stuff that they use.

Best, Rick

Math help for Glen

Actually, Glen, this is often confused. To simplify things, think of how the tubes surface area would be measured if the tube was separated at a joint and flattened out like a sheet of paper. Then the area would be width x length. The correct method of finding surface area for a tube is to multply the inch measurement of the circumference (either inside or outside) by the inch measurement of the height (or length, in this case) of the tube. The formula for circumference is Pi times the diameter (inside or outside diameter). Thus, for a 1 inch long copper tube with 1/8" (0.125") outside diameter, the surface area would be ((3.143 x .125) x 1), or 0.393 square inches, as rounded up. The diameter of the tube's interior is 1/16" (0.0625"), so the surface area of the interior wall would be ((3.143 x .0625) x 1), or 0.196 square inches, as rounded down. The combined area is thus 0.393 + 0.196, or 0.589 square inches, which of course is 0.196 square inches in addition to what a solid conductor would provide in terms of surface area (laterally). That's a whopping 58.5% increase, by the way. (1.585 x .393 = .623)

So the first principle involved here is that you take away the highest resistance path of a conductor, by giving it a hollow center, and this gives you an additional conductive path of lesser, but substantial surface area.

Hey, Glen, I like that photo of the cat with the sun glasses on. A cool cat!

Best regards, Rick

Re: Kiker cable duplications

Hi Aaron,

That's quite a coil you have there. Actually, the Kiker specs suggest a 2.5 inch through pass diameter for the battery lead coil, and with 1/4 inch o.d. tubing the coil outside diameter would be 3 inches. Kiker says that up to 5 inches o.d. can be utilized for heftier installations, though.

I don't imagine that you ran the smaller tubing inside that, which Kiker says is the "preferred" configuration for the battery to starter tube. You would have to use some rather thin insulating material on the smaller tubing to be able to fit it inside the 1/4" tubing, which has an i.d of 3/16". The advised size of the inner tubing is 1/8" o.d. x 1/16" i.d, so the insulation layer thickness would be less than 1/32
(.031) inch.

Did you bend the tubing coils freehand? A few kinks are visible, and I'm not certain if that will have any adverse effect, but likely that it may. A tubing bender tool would be handy for making these coils, especially for the larger tubing sizes, while it may be easy enough to wind the 1/8" spark tubes on a 1/4inch mandrel without any problems if wound slowly and with caution.

I'm now wondering how much benefit I may be able to achieve if using both the spark tubes and Battery connector cables in my Prius. Two motor/generators in that, and an efficiency hike could really add up.

The Kiker spark tubes use the same 1/8" o.d. copper tubing mentioned above, and the same 5-turn counter-clockwise wound coil, but the coil location is close (2 to 3") to the spark plug end of the tube, wheareas the battery cable tubing suggests a preferred location for the coil being midway along the tube length. It seems that a relatively short battery cable tube, hooked to the end of the stock battery cable, is sufficent for the desired results. That type of configuration was also used initially with the spark tubes being added ahead of the stock plug wires, and while it initially worked just fine, the stock plug wires soon developed problems, as they couldn't handle the boosted output. Stock battery cables, though, should not suffer from that problem, as they are built beefy and have high conductance/low resistance. The Kiker effect, once initiated, has no problem in continuing, unless suppressed by high resistance wiring.

Kiker seems to think that having the coil turns tightly compressed against each other is an important factor, and he uses a cable tie to compress and bind them in that manner, later hot-dipping the tube in an insulating coating. When making up the coiled tubing at home, you can't maintain the tight relationship of the coil windings if you place insulative tubing over the length of the copper tubing before you form the coils. I would suggest, instead, that you first form and bind the coils, and paint them with 3 or four coats of Tool Dip, allowing sufficient curing time between coatings. Then install the insulation tubing to cover the remaining exposed areas of tubing on each end of the painted coils.

When winding the coils: Notice, in any diagram showing the 5 -turn coil, the coil is not only wound counter-clockwise, but is also laid backwards 5 degrees from perpendicular, as found here: Spark tube design.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive There is definitely a reason why that angle is important to the design, so use the same alignment for best results.

You will notice that in the latest adaptation of the spark tubes, a coiled solid wire of small diameter is applied over the insulating layer of the tube in at least two locations, and then it is also covered in insulation. If adding that adaptation to your build, the solid wire should be 1/10 the outside diameter of the copper tubing used. So for 1/8" copper tubing that would be 1/80", or 0.0125" diameter wire. Notice also that these wire windings are wound in the opposite direction of the 5-turn coils, as evidenced here: Final spark tube design.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive Notice this diagram also shows the binding of the 5-turn coil by use of a tie, shown in dotted lines.

In thinking about why tubing makes so much better a spark or battery cable connector, I know that the path of greatest resistance is through the center of a conductor. That's why most of the applied current travels along the outer sectional area of the conductor. Removing the path of greatest resistance by using a hollow tube makes a lot of sense, and so does the
5-turn coil. Resistance on these tubes is said to be near zero ohms. The enhancement with the small diameter windings helps counter the inductive reactance of the 5-turn coil, since the coiling is done in the opposite direction, and also adds further elongation to the spark interval. Unlike the spark tubes, Kiker suggests winding the small wires on plastic tubing or straps for the coil to battery, and coil to distributor wiring. Naturally, these wires should also be well insulated after being made up. See the overall installation view here: Spark tube engine installation.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive

Hope this proves useful to those who want to do a build, and helps avoid the time spent in researching the patents, by getting right down to the nitty-gritty details which are involved.

Best to all, Rick

That's interesting, Vzon. Thanks. Perhaps I'm just not that interested in the design because I believe that we are going to have a good water fueled engine up and running very soon, and when we do I plan on using a 4 cycle water-cooled engine (idling at about 1,000 rpm) to both drive a 5 to 10 kw generator and pump the hot coolant through the radiators in my baseboard heating system this winter. Free power and heat! What could be better? And when I'm sleeping, and hardly using any of that generator power, I can send power back to the grid and get a check from the power company each month intead of sending them one. Sound good to you?

Elias - Yes that's a good design, and so simple too. You have strong magnetic attraction, until the thin tin blade comes in between the magnets, thus effectively shielding the magnets while the gearing and other rotational parts continue and pull the magnets apart. I like that. Thanks.

Rickoff

Hi Ash,

I saw that as it came up the other day in a message at the waterfuel1978 forum, and took a quick look. Not much there in the way of "plans," and my guess is that those large ring magnets would be very expensive. Although it may do what he claims, I don't see it as a best design for a generator, and the cost factor would put it out of budget for many people. It may, in fact, be worth further investigation, but I didn't feel it was worth the effort. Just my take on it, for what that's worth, and of course I may be wrong, but it just didn't ring any bells for me. I though the inventor's name was interesting, as it reminded me of Dan Quayle.

Rick

Re: Magnesium dangerous?

Hi dambit,

That's too bad you can't locate any magnesium sheet metal in Austrailia. That surprises me, because it seems that Australia is one of the most progressive countries when it comes to development of free energy concepts and devices. Suppliers everywhere, though, are wary of selling magnesium to individuals, and do treat it as a hazardous material. The main reason why magnesium is considered dangerous is because of fire hazard. Magnesium powder is an exlposion hazard because it is very easy to ignite, and burns with an intense flame. That's why it is used so widely in the manufacture of fireworks. Your eyes can be permanently damaged if you stare at a magnesium flame. You can scrape a bar of magnesium with a knife blade and create some really hot sparks that will start a fire very quickly. In sheet metal form, magnesium poses less of a danger than powdered or ribboned magnesium, but it will auto-ignite at less than 900F degrees and will accellerate to 4,000F degrees. Once ignited, a magnesium fire can not be extinguished using CO2, and water will accellerate the burn. Magnesium will react with water to form Hydrogen at room temperature, which poses an increased danger in an indoor environment. Industries that use magnesium are required to store it in a dry, fireproof environment, and it must be kept isolated from flammable liquids, gasses, or substances known to react with magnesium.

Hope this helps. Best regards to you, Rickoff

Reply to bill57

Hi Bill,

I don't see how your question relates to suppressed technologies, unless you are attempting to replicate a suppressed device. The answer, though, depends upon precisely what you are trying to build. Ferromagnetic cores are made from ferrous metals, which are either iron or iron containing alloys. You can form a core from a single piece of metal, or you can fabricate a core from several pieces of metal that are laminated (or otherwise bound) together tightly. For example, most experimenters use bunched pieces of welding rod for Bedini SG coil cores. If you are building something that requires a large core, or one that must be machined to a specific shape (to match the curvature of a rotor, for example) you could start by looking at your nearest scrap metal yard. You will find a lot of cast iron and steel there (don't select stainless steel, as it has very little ferrous metal in the alloy). Normally you don't want to select metal that has already become magnetized, so take a small piece of non-magnetized ferrous metal with you and make sure it isn't attracted to the piece you are considering. Also take a small magnet with you to test the metal for attraction. You don't want core material that does not attract a magnet. If you don't have the equipment needed to cut and machine the core, you can take the material to a machine shop, along with a drawing and specifications. Alternately, you could ask the machine shop to supply new raw material for the core to be machined, or purchase the material directly from a metals supplier such as or McMaster-Carr You can find many more supply companies if you do a simple Google search. If you need more help, try searching for a forum thread that applies to the type of device you want to build, and please try to be more specific when asking questions. We have many remarkable, intelligent, and experienced people participating in the energetic forums who would gladly offer their assistance, but first we must know some specifics about your project.

Hope this helps somewhat. Best wishes to you, Rickoff