Stephen Meyer Interview Part 6 (6-8-2007) — transcript

Stephen Meyer Interview Part 6 - 6-8-2007 Interview with James Robey, Kentucky Water Fuel Museum Transcribed from audio using Whisper AI

[0:00] Hello and welcome to a June 8 segment of the Kentucky Waterfuel Museum Webcast. [0:09] With us tonight is a long time guest, Stephen Meyer. [0:14] Stephen, you're there. [0:15] Yes, I'm here. [0:16] Welcome to the show. [0:17] Thank you very much. [0:18] Well, we've had several weeks past since we last chatted on air and there are some interesting [0:23] things to discuss. [0:25] How have you been, by the way? [0:26] Great. [0:27] I'm having an exciting time. [0:28] I really enjoyed the book that just happened, the Freedom of Element, Living with Hydrogen. [0:34] I devoured that book in about three hours and went back over it again just so I make [0:39] sure I understood it. [0:40] It was really fascinating. [0:41] They did a fabulous job on it. [0:43] It really is a fascinating book and I know Mr. Bain apologizes for talking about himself [0:48] so much along the way because his personal life story is woven throughout the book. [0:54] But personally, I think that's what makes it interesting. [0:56] Well, absolutely. [0:58] I mean, you've got to talk about yourself a little bit because a lot of people don't [1:02] know about the things you've done privately and only a few things that they know about [1:08] you publicly. [1:11] This book is a good example of where he's gained a lot of experience and he's trying [1:15] to show people how safe hydrogen is and what really happened to that event with the Hindenburg. [1:22] You know that brought me back when we were first talking about that was that I was lucky [1:28] to marry my high school sweetheart, Donna, and her dad and her mom. [1:36] When I was going through the courtship, they invited me to go with them down to Caldwell, [1:42] Ohio to see Donna's uncle who lived there and wait. [1:49] And during that visit where they were introducing me to the family, Wade asked me to help him [1:55] move some things out of his basement and he was quite up in age at the time. [2:00] And that's where I bumped into some of his artifacts with the Hindenburg and I saw this [2:07] newspaper and article and he started telling me about it and he brought out some of these [2:13] components and pieces of it. [2:16] That's why I thought at the time that it occurred in Caldwell, Ohio. [2:22] But what really happened was I went back and talked to my wife, my ex-wife and she said [2:28] that he was there and he picked up some of these artifacts. [2:34] One of the things that I noticed when I was looking at him at Staten and I were really [2:37] heavy into building model airplanes and they didn't have real good model airplane kits [2:43] back in those days. [2:44] A lot of the airplanes were just built, you carved them out of balsa wood and so forth [2:51] but the kits were starting to come out. [2:54] And I noticed that when I was looking at some of those artifacts that he handed me, he said [3:00] this was part of the skin and I looked at it and I said wow, it's soft and pliable. [3:05] And on these model kits that they were bringing out, they had this kind of a paper, a real [3:11] thin paper that you could glue onto the wings and you could glue it on when it was wet and [3:17] then you took a hairdryer and you warmed up the paper and as it did it, all the wrinkles [3:23] that were in the paper would cease to be there and it would be real taunt like a banjo. [3:30] And we used what they called dope, it was like a banana oil paint that we would paint [3:37] and it was really pretty punchin' stuff and we would paint our model airplanes with it [3:42] but it was very flammable and that's what I remember seeing this material that it looked [3:49] like it was painted with some sort of a dope and here it turned out to be the oxide and [3:54] that rocket fuel that they had used and it's really a small world because I don't know [3:59] what happened to those artifacts that Wade had. [4:03] But I know he passed away several years after that and it must have been given to his family [4:09] but he was right close to Kentucky so I was amazed as reading the book and I just wonder [4:17] if some of that stuff might have gotten into the Smiths O'ning Institute or maybe some [4:24] of those other people that were trying to do research on it. [4:27] Well these days if anyone has any kind of artifacts at all they usually end up on eBay. [4:33] Well yeah, if you had an original piece like that, oh that would be just awesome you know. [4:38] But I think he's gone a long way in this book to explain to the reader that hydrogen is not [4:48] as dangerous as they portrayed. [4:51] And of course the news media, I don't think they purposely, but if it doesn't have some [4:59] excitement to the story nobody will pay attention to it. [5:03] So then I'm not so sure they could analyze it at the time it was happening so I think [5:08] that's why a lot of people saw the movies and saw the articles and then you could imagine [5:14] the news flash back in those days coming over radio. [5:17] They were very descriptive on the radios when we were kids we used to listen, then I used [5:22] to listen to the radio because that was the major communication. [5:26] We didn't have television. [5:28] So they were descriptive, they would describe and what they do is paint a picture of the [5:33] event and they would use words and phraseology that would really get that across. [5:39] And so I can imagine when that news flash came across about Hindenburg and the events [5:46] that occurred I was shocked in the book to find out that from the time that started to [5:52] the time it was down on the ground was only about 52 seconds. [5:57] That blip was 12 stories high and three football fields long and for all that to occur in 52 seconds. [6:12] That is amazing. [6:14] It wasn't as destructive a disaster as people would have thought. [6:19] There were many survivors and apparently many of those who died died from jumping. [6:26] Oh yeah, there was one guy that he jumped and then he ran but I think he got disorientated [6:35] and so instead of running to safety he actually made a turn and went right back into it and fell on top of him. [6:42] Here's what I'm wondering. [6:44] Apparently increasing evidence that our jet travel convenience what may be is causing [6:51] extensive damage to the atmosphere because of the placement of the exhaust right into the [6:55] upper atmosphere at 35,000 feet or whatever it is. [6:59] Oh, it does. [7:01] It does when the engines get up. [7:05] When a plane is cruising at 35,000 feet there's not much oxygen in relative terms [7:11] as it would be down in the troposphere closer to the earth. [7:15] The planes are going faster and the air is being processed, the thin air is being processed. [7:22] When you look at the percentage of pollution if you will or the percentage of the fuel as [7:31] compared to the oxygen it's quite heavy. [7:34] A lot of the exhausts from planes and things when they're down in the troposphere. [7:41] The troposphere is the area that's closest to the earth and that's where all the storms are [7:47] and of course the planes they like to fly above it but if you're flying in the troposphere [7:52] the rain brings all those products, a lot of those products back to earth and when you get [7:57] into the ionosphere it stays up there. [8:01] And then the other thing that occurs is that the solar wind particles which are the protons [8:09] are hitting and colliding with the earth and the ionosphere and they're bumping into those [8:15] particulates and there's a reaction. [8:19] So Al Gore when he made his presentation it's an inconvenient truth. [8:27] He showed what happened when during the 9-11 attack it was unprecedented for the United States [8:37] to order all of the planes in the air to land and when they did it took them about three hours [8:46] to get all the planes on the ground but the scientists noticed that there was a spike [8:52] in the temperature of the earth so they went back and they looked at what the contributions [8:58] of the planes was during that time and it was substantial. [9:03] I mean to ground all the planes and then see a blip in the temperature. [9:07] That's amazing to me. [9:09] That is interesting. [9:10] Very interesting. [9:11] Well what I was getting at is that if our jet travel is contributing to the degradation [9:21] of our atmosphere in such a disproportionate way to ground fossil fuel usage because of [9:29] the placement of the exhaust up there in the, you're calling it the ionosphere is that it? [9:34] Ionosphere, yeah. [9:35] There's five layers to the earth's atmosphere. [9:38] As I mentioned the lowest is the troposphere and then you, boy I gotta remember, there's [9:45] the ionosphere is up towards the top layer. [9:50] Okay. [9:51] Well the point that I was trying to get at is this. [9:54] And I don't think that Addison Bain went to this extent in suggesting that we should [10:01] switch to blimp or airship travel. [10:04] But he emphasized that airships could be beneficial used for things like putting out fires and [10:10] hauling heavy construction materials up to mountaintops and things like that. [10:17] I would suggest that perhaps the airship travel which apparently became very popular in the [10:24] 19th century. [10:25] There were a bunch of blimps flying around. [10:27] They didn't look like the Goodyear blimp or the Hindenburg. [10:30] But in the 18, around the 1870s, apparently there was a big upsurge in Europe in the number [10:37] of these aircraft. [10:39] And to think that it was a very earth friendly way of getting around. [10:46] Well you know they started air travel, you know, lighter than air was the balloons over [10:53] in France and Germany. [10:55] And there were ones that even I believe some of the Chinese had created hot air. [11:02] They would make a great big balloon essentially and then build a fire and capture the heat [11:08] from the fire. [11:10] And then they were using those balloons to get around. [11:14] And that was a state of the art back in those days. [11:17] These crafts were lighter than air. [11:20] And they had a lot of problems with them being that they were hard to steer. [11:24] You were subject to the air currents and they pushed you around. [11:29] Now you did have a buoyancy capabilities where you could raise the balloon higher in the atmosphere [11:34] or lower by casting off counter-bonded weights. [11:40] And that's benefit from the different currents. [11:43] Exactly. [11:44] The air currents would push you around and it was good travel. [11:48] It was tough because a lot of them you couldn't pick your spot to land and things like that [11:54] and a lot of people got killed with them. [11:56] But it was a sport, you know, and it was new aviation. [11:59] And so they took it as far as they could. [12:01] And even today I can't remember the fellow that broke the wolves' wreck and around the earth [12:08] with the balloon at the moment. [12:10] But he was the same fellow that went for the X Prize for the plane that went into space. [12:17] He did a good job. [12:18] He used modern technology and GPS and so forth. [12:21] And he was able to steer and command that module to go around the planet. [12:26] And I take my hat off to him because it was a fabulous feat. [12:30] Non-stop, by the way. [12:32] Well, you know what came to me this week. [12:34] If someone is concerned about the safety of airship travel as a means of getting around, [12:42] what about using one as an energy producing system? [12:48] In other words, you could lift heavy things such as water. [12:52] It wouldn't have to travel horizontally. [12:54] It could strictly be a vertical movement from the ocean or a lake or even groundwater. [13:01] It's in the ground. [13:02] It could be hoisted up high enough to where, as it falls, it could be used to generate electricity or something. [13:10] And you've not had to expend the energy to pump it up there. [13:17] You know what I'm saying? [13:19] Well, they use the waterfall and use the dams, the Hoover Dam and the large... [13:30] Exactly, the hydroelectric dams. [13:32] The hydro power around the world, like Niagara Falls, for example, [13:37] that was an incredible feat to build systems that would turn generators. [13:44] In fact, it's kind of interesting that Minneapolis, Minnesota was the first pilot site for hydroelectric. [13:52] Right downtown here between Minneapolis and St. Paul, there's St. Anthony's Falls. [13:59] And when they came up with the concept of developing hydroelectric, [14:05] the actual prototype site was here in Minneapolis, Minnesota. [14:10] And they built this site and what they did was they had drilled these tunnels, if you will. [14:20] They were vertical tunnels and the water fall from St. Anthony's Fall. [14:24] They would fall down these tunnels and at the bottom of it, they put in these turbines. [14:29] And what happened was Minneapolis, Minnesota is in the grain belt [14:35] and they had built these huge grain elevators. [14:38] And Goldflower was...Pillsbury and Goldflower was a very, very good industry up here in the flower mills. [14:48] They used that falling water to not only turn the turbines, [14:52] which in turn would mechanically couple the energy into these plants so they could grind the flower. [14:59] So they had an idea, so why don't we try this new concept on generating power? [15:05] And so they built this prototype building and they put in these two generators. [15:11] If anybody comes to Minneapolis, Minnesota, they can go down and take a look at them. [15:15] They generated electrical power and they wired it up to the local community. [15:23] And then everybody got to see these light bulbs and lit up at night. [15:29] So this was way back when? [15:30] Yeah. And then what happened was it ran for about a year. [15:35] And then from that, they went back and started the whole program of building dams and hydroelectric power. [15:45] Isn't that interesting? [15:46] Yeah, from that model. [15:48] And it's interesting to see the generators and stuff because they're the real old. [15:52] Yeah. [15:53] But reading Addison's book made me think of the possibility of using the lifting power of hydrogen [16:01] because he mentioned that extremely heavy things that cannot be transported by helicopter [16:06] to some of these projects that are being done, dams and bridges and so on in the mountain areas, [16:14] that an airship could be used beneficially to lift such things. [16:19] Oh, sure. [16:20] As well as putting out force. [16:21] Exactly. [16:22] Now, at first, I wonder a little bit about the force fires because the blips are so big [16:28] and they're controlled by the air currents that one of the disadvantages about force fires are [16:34] is that the wind that's feeding that fire is very turbulent and very violent. [16:41] And so I don't know if you could really control an airship like that during that event. [16:47] It would be pretty tough. [16:49] And they have a tough enough time with these great big cargo planes that they fill up. [16:54] They're just modifying a new 747. [16:58] I say new. [16:59] It's new for putting out force fires because they put this chemical in the plane and then [17:06] fly it over the fire and then discharge it so that it smothers the fire. [17:11] And they're having a difficult time because that plane is so big that it's being affected by the air currents. [17:16] Yeah. [17:17] And especially with the so-called Hindenburg mentality, the last thing you'd want is to have a hydrogen airship [17:22] above the fire. [17:24] Well, yeah, well, last thing you'd want to do is be bobbing up there trying to control it. [17:28] And I think it would be pretty tough. [17:30] That was very interesting in the book that he was talking about the Hindenburg and what caused the fire [17:36] was the fact that the exhaust of the engine was one of the main culprits of that [17:43] because I was surprised that they modified the engine. [17:48] They originally had the propellers in the back where it pushed the blimp. [17:55] And then they discovered that they could put the propellers in the front. [17:59] And what they did was they used the exhaust and they captured the water. [18:05] And they brought that water back into the airship and they used it for drinking, but that was the ballast. [18:12] So Hindenburg was working just like a submarine does. [18:17] And so they would collect this water as they were flying along and then the weight of the water would be the ballast. [18:24] So whenever they wanted to land or change its altitude, they would either jettison the water or add water to it. [18:32] And it was really kind of neat. [18:35] And they determined that the fire, one of the engines, they were studying the exhaust out of the engine [18:46] and they were trying to see how far the temperature of the exhaust was away from the back of the engine. [18:54] And that's where in the book they brought out that the fire actually started in the tail section of the blimp [19:01] and that's the reason why it started from the engine itself, the exhaust from the engine. [19:07] And they were coming in for landing and there was a shift in the air [19:13] so they had to rev up the engine to counter-react the shift in the air. [19:20] And it just turned out to be that the exhaust went across the back tail section of the blimp and that's where it caught on fire. [19:30] He did a fabulous job in this book. I take my hat off to him because that's a lot of research. [19:38] And he even shows a model of it that he made a picture in his book. [19:45] He showed him where he was making the model of the back tail section, which is where the fire started. [19:51] And then his recording of where people were at what time and what was happening was fabulous. [19:59] Yeah, quite a job and it is a very interesting read. [20:03] He's got a lot of little nuggets of information about the way the space program and the, I guess you'd say, the military industrial complex, [20:14] the way the whole thing functions and really how much of what happens is by accident. [20:19] There was a lot of coincidences that resulted in the forward movement of the space program [20:24] and his research about the Hindenburg. A lot of interesting little... [20:29] Oh, absolutely. You know that the next, they're working right now on the hypersonic aircraft. [20:35] It's been on the drawing boards and being produced for about ten years. [20:39] And it's using hydrogen. [20:42] And the technology is that they've known quite a bit about the ram jets in the past. [20:51] And now the Star Wars, the strategic defense system where we actually detect a flying missile and then we try to shoot it down. [21:01] Those are all being controlled and powered by these ram jet engines. [21:06] And they can go from zero up to 5,000 miles an hour in a very short period of time. [21:14] And the new hypersonic aircraft they're designing to take the place of the space shuttle is one that it'll take off from the airport [21:25] and actually gain altitude and reach the 5,000 miles an hour to lead the Earth's atmosphere. [21:33] And then the idea is it'll come back in and glide like an airplane to land. [21:38] And so they're using flush hydrogen to do that. [21:41] And it's an interesting technology because, see, an air jet airplane has its limitations. [21:48] If you plot the forward movement of an airplane and then you plot it against the elevation that it can go, [21:57] you'll find that as you go up in an altitude, the plane will go faster and faster and faster to a certain point. [22:05] And then as you keep going in an altitude, the air gets thinner and thinner and the plane starts slowing down. [22:11] So there's an optimum point of speed for an airplane. [22:17] It can't be flying too low and it can't be flying too high to maintain that maximum speed. [22:23] And so what happens is the jet engine actually limits the forward motion of the airplane [22:30] because it's trying to compress the air. [22:35] Air comes into the jet. It's being rammed into the jet at the high speeds. [22:41] But the problem is that the blades in the jet actually slow it down. [22:46] The blades become a break, an air break, rather than compressing it and creating the forward speed. [22:53] So the plane becomes limited by the jet engine. [22:57] So what they did was they looked at it again and they came up with a ramjet design again [23:04] because as you go faster and faster, all you need to do is to duck the air through the plane and add your heat to it. [23:16] And you can obtain tremendous speeds. [23:20] And so the ducked air doesn't put on these air brakes like a regular jet engine does. [23:26] So we're going to see very shortly this hypersonic aircraft using slush hydrogen. [23:34] And why they like slush hydrogen, it burns so fast that they can use it at these supersonic speeds. [23:40] And what is it you're referring to as slush hydrogen? [23:43] Slush hydrogen is actually they take hydrogen and they cool it. [23:47] You know, you can take any element like hydrogen and you can make it gases [23:54] or you can make it a solid or you can make it a liquid. [23:59] And we see most of it in a liquid form or a gases form. [24:05] Most people think of hydrogen being in the gases form, but actually you can cool it down. [24:11] And it will start to get into the liquid area. [24:14] And so they refer to that as it gets cooled down as a slush hydrogen. [24:20] So it's not that it's half frozen, but just liquid. [24:23] Yeah, it's a liquid that is cooling and cooling and cooling. [24:28] Now the nice thing about this whole thing is that you get higher in space. [24:32] See, when you go from the troposphere, the next layer on the Earth is a tropical pause. [24:38] And a tropical pause is about a minus 68 degrees F and it's that temperature all the time. [24:43] It ran relative speaking. [24:45] But then as you go higher and you get towards space, if you're on the dark side of the planet, it's pretty cold. [24:52] And if you're on the sunny side of the planet, it's not as cold, but it's cold. [24:58] And so what happens is the higher you go, the colder it gets, the hydrogen goes more and more into the slush. [25:06] And when they do, they get more power density, so they get more push. [25:11] So it's a tremendous improvement in the space travel with this new technique using slush hydrogen. [25:19] Well, what I'm wondering is what we can do to improve our air travel in the short term, not having to wait for some long-term solution to our jet travel pollution problem. [25:33] I'm wondering, is it possible, for instance, to convert our current aircraft to burn hydrogen? [25:39] Well, I know the Russians did this a number of years ago, but I don't know that there's been any move toward eliminating the fossil fuels in jet aircraft. [25:48] Well, what they've been doing is, you look at it two different ways. [25:53] It's like the small lorry automobiles. You have these little trucks they call lorries, and you can put a couple suitcases in them and transport them. [26:03] But then you have to make 25 trips to get something from A to B. [26:09] Well, you build a bigger truck and you can move more in that truck from A to B. [26:14] And if you look at the consumption aspects of things, it's less consumption because you have a bigger truck and you're only making a trip one time when the fossil is coming back. [26:24] Well, you'll notice that the airplanes are getting bigger and bigger and bigger because the passenger seat mile in a large aircraft, the consumption of the fuel is so much less. [26:38] An aircraft, when it goes through the air, it has a friction of the air, but in comparison, it's sliding on ice. [26:47] An automobile, for example, has a huge amount of friction from the tires. [26:52] But if you have a plane design where it'll go through the atmosphere with very little resistance, what they call drag, then it doesn't take so much to push it. [27:04] And that's what they're looking at to go from continent to continent now, is these bigger, bigger airplanes so that, you know, it's unreal if we would go to our forefathers and say, look, we're going to fly 500 people from New York to Europe in one aircraft, they would say to you, no way. [27:22] And that's a huge aircraft. [27:25] So that's how they're doing it. [27:27] And then the engines themselves, General Electric and Pratt & Whitney have done a very nice job on improving the performance of the jet engines. [27:38] And just a couple of years ago, they announced that they got a 40% increase improvement in the efficiency of the jet engines. [27:47] So they're doing everything they can to not burn up as much as it also feels because it's so expensive. [27:54] And now they're looking at other alternatives, which I think eventually the large aircrafts will start looking at some of the slush hydrogen. [28:02] Yeah. Well, you know that I had an interview with Dr. Bain. [28:07] You did? [28:08] Yes, last week, I suppose it was, two weeks ago. [28:12] Fabulous. [28:13] Is it on the air? [28:15] Yeah, it's in the archives on blog talk. [28:17] Oh, OK. [28:18] One of the things he mentioned, he said he couldn't really talk about it because I guess he's under a non-disclosure with a company that's doing something along this line, but it had to do with airships and hydrogen. [28:30] Really? [28:31] Yeah. [28:32] Well, I can imagine because it's the wave of the future. [28:40] The fossil fuel process has done quite well for us for 150 years or so. [28:47] It's done quite well for us, but we have to look in the future. [28:51] And hydrogen is it. [28:54] You know, the next time you pick up a Coke, I want you to think about this for a minute, pick up a Coke and have you have an aluminum can. [29:04] And when you pop open that Coke and you drink that Coke, I want you to think about that aluminum that's in your hand. [29:11] And this aluminum is fabulous, fabulous amount of hydrogen. [29:16] And it's very interesting, I mentioned before a couple of other shows that when we're dealing with the water technology, it's a barrier technology. [29:27] And so let me give you an example of this, about this aluminum. [29:31] It's very interesting. [29:32] You know, aluminum is when it's made by an arc furnace, you can only make a, you take bauxite and you do some little bit of process. [29:41] It takes a lot of electricity. [29:43] Well, it takes a good amount of electricity, but then you make the aluminum. [29:47] And the nice thing about it is aluminum doesn't rust, and it seems to be impervious to a lot of the atmosphere, you know. [29:56] But what happens to aluminum is that it forms an oxide on its layer, on the surface where the air comes in contact with it, why it forms an oxide. [30:06] And so aluminum is very, if you look at it as far as metal goes, it's very pliable and machinable and you can form it. [30:15] Very interesting. [30:16] But now let's take a little concept here, and I mentioned before. [30:20] We have to change our thinking a little bit about what's happening and how we can solve this problem. [30:27] And it turns out to be that aluminum is very interesting because when it forms this oxide, it's a barrier between the atmosphere and the atoms within the aluminum. [30:38] Now, if you could take that oxide away from the aluminum, then it would release, using water, it would release all of its hydrogen. [30:51] And what happens is that you can take gallium and you can take about a kilogram of gallium. [31:02] Okay, this is something that came out in the news this week, isn't it? [31:04] Yeah, exactly. [31:05] But I'm trying to make the point is that he took wood from Duke University. [31:15] What he did was he took chunks of aluminum, which was about a gram apiece, so he put about 12 chunks of aluminum in this gallium. [31:26] Now, the gallium was being stirred and heated to about 100 degrees, and then as he was stirring it, while the aluminum melted in the gallium, just like an ice cube would melt in a glass of water. [31:41] Okay. [31:42] Now, when it melted, what he was doing is there are three phases to every element. [31:47] There's a solid, there's a liquid, and there's a gas. [31:50] So the aluminum was a solid and the gallium was a liquid, but when it melted into the gallium, now it had one phase, which was liquid. [32:00] But what happens is the gallium would remove the oxide, coating from the aluminum. [32:07] Now, the aluminum in the gallium oxide, the atoms are exposed. [32:12] As soon as you pump, pour water into the beaker, you had a Pyrex beaker that could handle higher temperatures, and then he, Susie, poured water in it. [32:24] He had all of the water converted to hydrogen, instantaneously. [32:30] Instantaneously is conversion. [32:32] Why? [32:33] Because the oxide was removed. [32:35] It exposed the electrons of the atoms to the water molecule. [32:41] The water molecule says, see, I like those electrons, and so it split decompose the water. [32:47] And then what happened was the oxygen within the water went to form the aluminum oxide, which turned out to be a frost, and it turned into a solid. [32:59] And the gallium was still there. [33:02] It's completely inert and doesn't do anything to the process, but it acts as a catalyst. [33:10] And it released this huge amounts of hydrogen instantaneously. [33:14] So here, he looked at it and he said, wait a minute. [33:18] You can take two and a half pounds of aluminum and you can convert it into 30 liters of hydrogen. [33:28] And the reaction is instantaneous. [33:32] So you see, it's a barrier technology here that is very important to get these catalysts. [33:40] So there's a good example of what the future is, of how we can generate hydrogen. [33:48] Now, the good thing about what he did was that engineering today is very important because once you produce a product that you want, [33:56] you have to understand what you're going to do with the waste of that product. [34:00] You just can't throw it on the ground. [34:02] So it turns out that he can take that froth, which was white in color, and you could dry it. [34:10] And it's crusty and hard as a solid. [34:14] He could ship that back to, say, a co-op plant, for example, that's close to a nuclear reactor, [34:23] that they can put it in the arc furnace and they can resupply the electrons and convert it back into aluminum. [34:33] So it turns out to be that the aluminum, there is plenty of aluminum on this planet. [34:40] In fact, the United States is using about 50 trillion watts of power for the whole United States. [34:49] So aluminum could supply almost five times that amount easily. [34:55] So here's where science, they say that there's nothing new under the sun. [35:01] That may be true, but here's a different technique. [35:04] There's a different way of looking at it. [35:06] And the same thing is with water. [35:09] It's a different way to look at it. [35:11] And to me, the water is the way to go because of the fact that it's very, very abundant. [35:19] And it returns back to its energy state very easily. [35:22] Once you use a hydrogen and it goes back into water, all it has to do is be charged by the sun and it's back up. [35:29] It gets its energy back up. [35:32] Well, in getting back to Dr. Bain, he mentioned in the interview with me that he works for the Department of Energy now. [35:43] Really? I would imagine. [35:45] Since he retired at NASA, he's a major player in the Department of Energy's Hydrogen Research Department. [35:54] Wow. [35:55] Well, you know that that's a really a feather in their hat because they have done a lot of projects that really haven't been defined well. [36:06] And a lot of them haven't worked the way they thought it would. [36:11] And it's, of course, I think he's going to be very intramental, if you will, excuse me, on how to apply hydrogen and how to use it. [36:21] Because in his book, he brought out a very good point where he was talking about the tanks where you store the hydrogen [36:30] and he was talking about the control valves on these vessels, the size of them. [36:37] And he realized that, you know, if you had a hydrogen bottle that was full of hydrogen and you had a valve in there and that valve would get broken off, [36:48] hydrogen would exit that bottle very, very fast. [36:53] And because it's moving so very fast through a very small orifice, if you will, the metal actually catches on fire. [37:02] And so one of his inputs was, wait a minute, you've got to have a certain size orifice where that doesn't happen. [37:10] And then they did research and found a metal that actually does not catch fire. [37:17] And so every hydrogen bottle that you're going to see from now on in the future is going to have this particular metal on the valve to keep it from catching fire. [37:28] And people don't realize that just the velocity of that hydrogen past a metal could cause it to catch on fire. [37:36] Very interesting. [37:37] There's an aluminum that I was talking about where you remove this oxide. [37:42] The British down, when they had the Balkan War, it was down in Argentina. [37:50] There was an island and there was a dispute and they had a war. [37:54] And Argentina, I think, shot a French missile at it and they sank it. [38:00] And they were shocked about that because it was one of their most modernistic boat it was. [38:06] And what happened was they had aluminum on it and when the missile heated the aluminum and when it was hit with salt water, that's what happened. [38:16] It released its hydrogen and it just burned and it shocked everybody. [38:21] So it's amazing. [38:25] Well, Dr. Bain has a hydrogen production unit at his home. [38:34] Yeah, I saw that in a book. That was coming to me. [38:37] He's running a Ford Crown Victoria. [38:40] It's actually a dual fuel vehicle. [38:43] It has both regular gasoline and a hydrogen tank on board also that he's able to fill from his own electrolyzer, making his own hydrogen from solar panels, I believe. [38:55] Well, I mentioned the possibility of producing hydrogen on demand from water under the hood, on board. [39:04] And he was unacquainted with the concept. [39:08] Now here we are in 2007 and Dr. Bain is working for the U.S. Department of Energy. [39:14] How long ago was it that your brother demonstrated a dune buggy running on hydrogen made on board from water? [39:24] Well, he did his work back in 73. [39:29] That was one of the most astounding things that there was. [39:35] Well, the news media release is actually in 84. [39:39] Well, I think his actual work that he actually started, when he started this thing, I was down at his house one day and he had this little thing in his hand. [39:48] It was really small. [39:50] And he says, this thing produces hydrogen from water. [39:54] And I said, well, okay. [39:56] And so he started to show me and he had a little coffee cup and he put this thing in there and he put his electrodes in it and he had these little bubbles coming out. [40:04] He says, well, that's hydrogen. [40:06] And I said, I don't know, Stan. [40:08] It looks like bubbles. [40:09] You know, when you put carbon, carbonated carbonation in your drink, you know, when you pop it open, you get a little fizz and you have some bubbles. [40:17] And so it took him three years to convince me that that's what he was doing. [40:22] I was just looking. [40:23] I was marveled at that. [40:25] And the first thing he ever ran was a 12 horsepower lawn engine. [40:31] He got an engine and they put it together and he ran it and everybody said, wow, that was pretty interesting. [40:38] But he didn't know at that time anything really what was going on. [40:43] And all he just said, I just look at this, you know. [40:47] And then from that he kept working and working and working with it and he kept moving from smaller to bigger and to bigger and finally got to his car, you know. [40:58] And that was his highlight. [41:00] He driving that car and getting it to run. [41:03] I've got movies of him where the first time he ran a car on his cell. [41:10] And I'll tell you, it was really exciting. [41:13] His wife, Marilyn, was taking a picture. [41:17] Stan was running a car and a guy named Charlie Holbrook was there and he had his doom buggy and on the back of the doom buggy, he had a great big vessel, which was a gas tank at the time. [41:29] And so Stan took his apparatuses out of the lab and it was still wired to the house power because he wasn't sure anything about the engine itself. [41:45] But he said, well, I'm just going to power myself and get the hydrogen going and then I'm going to start this car. [41:53] So he did. [41:55] They started up and it just sat there and idled and I'll tell you, he was so excited. [42:00] He had his watch on and the more they put their hands down and felt the exhaust and then he would try to smell a little bit and see what it, if there was a kind of different odors coming out of it. [42:15] He just, he was beside himself because it was running so well. [42:20] And in his movie he would say, ladies and gentlemen, if you think his car isn't running off of water, he points to the tank and says this car has been running for over 12 minutes, 15 minutes off of this hydrogen. [42:36] He said if there was any gas within that carburetor, it was long gone. [42:41] So he kept running and then he came back. [42:45] It took him a long time to figure out the right ratios to get it to work. [42:51] I mean, it wasn't like he went out and did it and it took off right away. [42:57] It took him years to figure it out. [42:59] But then he got to a point where he could repeat it and that was the exciting part. [43:06] And this video, I don't know if you've got a video of it or not. [43:11] It's not one that's viewable online. [43:14] It's probably a copy to a copy to a copy. [43:17] Is it something that's already viewable online now? [43:21] Oh no, this video is a family video. [43:28] It's never been seen. [43:29] I don't believe it ever has. [43:31] Yeah, well we'll have to get a copy of that. [43:33] That should be something that the public would be very interested in. [43:35] In fact, I'll tell you the truth. [43:37] The interviews that we have done together are of more interest to the public [43:41] than anything else that I've done because on this blog talk radio, [43:46] the person who's running the show can see how many people have listened to the archived shows. [43:54] The numbers are there. [43:56] They're not there for the public to view, but the person who's running the show has accessed those numbers. [44:01] I'd like for you to send me someone else. [44:05] I've been getting some calls from all over the world. [44:08] I got a call the other day from Finland, I think it was, from Norway. [44:13] And then a couple from England. [44:15] Well people are interested, especially, and again this is of no disrespect to Dr. Bain, [44:21] but here you've got a guy who served as the chairman of the Department of Energy's Hydrogen Program. [44:26] They meet twice a year in Washington, DC, and discuss what projects are going to fund. [44:31] He said the budget originally was like $100,000 and now it's in the millions. [44:35] And when I mentioned the concept of running a vehicle on water that's produced on board, [44:41] he was totally unaware of and disbelieving of the possibility. [44:47] And yet this... [44:49] Well I think they do. [44:51] I mean, you know, this concept that I was talking about, the aluminum word, Dr. Woodall, [44:57] you know, he discovered it back in 1967. [45:00] He was working with IBM. [45:03] What happened with regard to Gallium? [45:05] Well, yeah, well what happened was that in 1967, you know, integrated circuits, [45:13] transistors came in 1950 and 55 and commercially they were available in the 60s and 65. [45:23] Transistors were just coming out. [45:26] And then they decided that transistors are really bulky, [45:32] so they were studying the substrates and realized that they could make these dope, [45:39] and they put the substrates into transistor junctions. [45:43] Like I say, it's a barrier technology. [45:46] And in order to make the wire connections on the substrates, they used aluminum, [45:53] because gold is too expensive, and too nobody really knew how to overlay gold onto the substrates [46:01] and keep it to stick and make it stick. [46:04] So they used aluminum for their tracing. [46:07] Aluminum is not quite as good a conductor as gold is, [46:12] but they were making the transistor smaller and the wiring connectors shorter [46:18] so they could make the integrated circuits much faster. [46:25] Well, he was working with the substrates and using some of this aluminum, [46:31] and he used Gallium in the process of making transistors. [46:35] When they dope transistors, that's the interesting thing about it. [46:39] You can take germanium and silicon, and what you do is you dope it. [46:45] What you're doing is you're making it impure. [46:48] They're taking something that's very pure and adding atoms where it makes it impure [46:54] at a certain percentage, a very small percentage, so they make that material a semiconductor. [47:01] So what happened was that he was cleaning up some material and there was a ball [47:07] and he wanted to wash it out and he put it down underneath the sink, [47:11] and it had this huge outgassing, and it shocked him. [47:15] He said, it's scaring the death. [47:17] What the hell was his reaction? [47:19] So he went back in his office and took him a period of time, [47:24] maybe a week or a couple years, whatever it was, to figure out what the world happened. [47:30] But at that time, a lot of times things happen like that. [47:36] There has to be a period of time where you think about it, [47:39] and it's more of a lab curiosity, and they don't know what to really do about it, [47:45] but then eventually he started thinking about it, [47:49] and then they got some funding, and then he started to replicate and understand what he was doing, [47:56] and then he came up with his process where it releases all that hydrogen. [48:00] You're saying that the recent news media attention to this, I think it was Purdue University, [48:07] and you're saying it actually began years ago at Duke University? [48:13] No, it started in IBM in 1967. [48:16] So here we are 40 years later. [48:19] Yeah, exactly. [48:20] It takes 20 years, or 25 or 30 years, in order to take laboratory curiosity to... [48:29] ...purning into something. [48:31] And it's the same thing that's happened to Stan. [48:33] And all Stan says, man, look what I got, and everybody kind of says, [48:37] some of them were interested and some weren't, and others didn't pay attention, [48:42] and here it is all this time from 1973 to today, where people are starting to realize that, hey, [48:52] maybe there's something here. [48:54] Yeah, well I do have to say this, of everyone who's been involved in water fuel technology, [49:00] your brother is probably the most well-known. [49:03] I mean, you mentioned Dad Garrett in 1934, and people scratched their heads and they don't know, [49:09] people who've been paying attention will say, oh, Stanley Amire, of course. [49:13] So he did a good job in getting, you know, mustering some publicity for the technology. [49:20] But in fact, here's something very interesting. [49:23] I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but there is a website. [49:27] It's called h2earth.org. [49:32] It's called what? [49:33] It's h2, the letter h, the number two, and then earth.org. [49:38] R-T-E-H dot, or, or-G? [49:42] Yes, h2earth.org. [49:46] Okay. [49:47] And they actually have a countdown, and I'm looking at it right now. [49:52] It says the countdown is 18 days, 21 hours, 10 minutes, and zero seconds to when your brother's patent, [50:02] number 4,936,961, is going to go public domain. [50:08] Okay. [50:09] You can believe that. [50:10] Well, I believe it. [50:11] I mean, I- [50:12] And above it says, countdown to the 2007 first annual water-free celebration. [50:18] So apparently they're, it says this is when Myers expires. [50:23] So there's no one at the top of the V.S. [50:26] Well, that's without you. [50:28] He's already expired, but- [50:30] Well, they're talking about his patent. [50:31] They're saying this is- [50:32] No, that's what, that's what patents are for. [50:34] The patents are disclosures, and they, if you get a patent, you have exclusive rights to use your work for a given period of time. [50:46] And then for that exclusive use, you will, after a period of time, it will become public domain. [50:54] And then the, but what really happens is that the rate of knowledge is increasing as a square root, or as a square. [51:07] And so for 20 years in today's technology, it goes far beyond it. [51:14] I mean, our understanding today is far beyond what Stan has done in some respects. [51:22] But then again, a lot of things that were understood that he understood that people are starting just now to catch on a little bit about what it was that he was trying to show and do. [51:35] And so after the patent had lapsed, people use it. [51:42] And that's what happens to, like, the automobile industry and stuff. [51:45] You see a lot of the technology that these inventors have developed show up on the cars as time goes on. [51:53] And the unfortunate thing is that the guy that does all the pioneering work and so forth really doesn't reap much of the benefits. [52:03] Now, if there's one thing I've learned in following this technology over the last couple years, it's that inventors are some of the most abused people in society. [52:12] For all the benefits that they bring to society by their hard work and their ingenuity, they do not get the kind of payback that should be commensurate with their effort. [52:27] Yes, like teachers. You know, if you go over to Europe, like in Japan and whatnot, if you look at their dollars and so forth, the yen, so to speak, [52:36] you'll notice that a lot of people on their money as teachers, they hold the professors at high esteem, where in the United States, that's not so. [52:49] You very rarely are the professors held at high esteem. [52:54] It's like what you're saying. They understand their contributions and so forth, but they're not well received in a lot of areas. [53:06] You say you're a teacher and they say, well, that's fine. But it's the teachers that have a very important position because they're the ones that are training our kids. [53:18] Their job is fabulous. I mean, if technology is the speed of squaring, the teachers have to stay in tune to progress up to today. [53:33] Well, that's a major problem in academia now, is that the teachers are aware of what's being done in people's garages and they're denying the decision. [53:42] I agree with that. You know, a lot of time I talked to, like the state of Minnesota, and went up there and talked to one of the inventors. [53:51] It was really very exciting. He finally got to take the idea of he can create hydrogen real time by using these reformers. [54:03] He finally got the concept of between molecular and gases and he finally figured it out and thought we had some success at it. [54:17] I took one over and taught them a little bit. I said, I really was impressed because he's the only one that I have found that tied that together the way he did and he had a nice success at it. [54:30] So a lot of these reformers now are real time processing. They're looking for real time processing, but still again what's happening is right now because of things going on, everything still seems to be tied in with carbon. [54:46] They're doing everything. We have a coke processing plant down here that converts oil into gasoline. [54:53] They built a plant right next to it, a pilot plant, believe it or not, they take natural gas and they strip the hydrogen from the natural gas and they ship it over across the road to the coke plant so they can produce oil to couple it back in with carbon. [55:10] And so what's happening is all these solutions are still strapped to carbon. [55:16] Well, and I think it has to do with the fact that in order to justify a price, you know, charge the public for it, you have to do something and you cannot do that with rain falling from the sky or someone going down to a river or an ocean and scooping up a bucket of water. [55:35] If the average person can access the raw material to produce energy from for free, then you can't sell it to them, you know? [55:45] Yeah, but see, they really figured that out a long time ago when Stan was showing his vehicle that what the state of Ohio did at the time was that everybody that renews their driver's license plates for their car has to put on a form. [56:03] How many miles, what the mileage was when they started that year and what the mileage was at the end of the year. And the whole purpose of that was that if you, if you develop a vehicle that could drive on alternative fuels, their tax space would still be there. [56:18] Yeah, and I think that's exactly. [56:19] Because they would charge you on a miles driven. [56:20] There has to be a way to continue the supplying of tax dollars for highway maintenance or whatever it's used for on the part of people who do not buy fossil fuel. That's obvious. [56:31] Exactly. [56:32] So they've implemented that and so they're set so that if there's a people start driving alternative vehicles, they can still get the tax space. [56:43] And even the guys on the hybrid electric cars that plug them into the electricity now on the grid, that'll kick in. [56:51] You know, they're giving them an incentive to go that way and then when they go to pick up their license plates the next year, they'll find out how much it kind of cost them. [57:03] Yeah, obviously. [57:04] And you know something, the average person does not object to that. I've talked to a lot of people and I've asked them point blank. If they would object to paying say $300 a year in taxes instead of paying at the pump as you're doing now when you buy gasoline and pay 40 cents a gallon or more for tax. [57:21] And the people I've talked to have almost unanimously said absolutely. I would not object to paying once a year or however often a tax that is equal to what I'm currently paying in taxes to use fossil fuel. [57:39] Oh sure. I mean, I can see that. In other words, like Minnesota has, you can stand the dollar and every time you pay your electric bill. [57:50] You can send a few dollars in which goes for wind generation. So it's like you're contributing your money so that they can put in these windmills and eventually get more and more off of the different types of fuels. [58:07] And I visited the windmills down in southern Minnesota here and they were fabulous. I visited the windmill farm, an ethanol plant and an ethanol plant. And it was just incredible. [58:23] But the thing that really got me was that the ethanol plant was using 100,000 gallons of water a day for their process. And they were pumping that water out of the ground and they built a plant not even near a river. [58:40] And now the groundwater is being depleted so the farmers that are supplying the grain within a 25 mile area of this plant is going to have a water problem shortage which is now going to affect the growth of their plants and the delivery of the product to produce the ethanol. [58:59] I looked at all that water and I calculated the energy in the water and I was shocked about my God, you're only using a very small portion, less than 10% of that water energy was being used. [59:17] And I was shocked. I said all this and you could be using that 150,000 gallons of water. [59:23] And the whole purpose so that you can sell fuel to someone. Obviously the sale of fuel is the world's biggest business and that's the way they want to keep it. [59:33] And if there's a simple and easy answer, they certainly don't want people to access it if it doesn't mean lining their pockets. [59:42] Now I'd like to conclude by just mentioning something because this should be of interest to everyone including you. I believe you may have already heard from this gentleman but I got an email from a reporter with the Columbus Dispatch newspaper and he said that he's doing an article on your brother. [59:59] Oh yeah, I had a call from a guy. [60:02] And he asked if I wanted to have any input into the article and so I've been communicating with him. [60:10] Oh super. [60:12] Yeah, I've been communicating with him and he just cannot believe that there is such a thing as a conspiracy wherein the purveyors of fossil fuel do not want us to access something like fuel from water. [60:24] And that academia would be somehow influenced by this trillion dollar industry to not acknowledge the public that it's doable. [60:35] So anything that I said to him, he took it very skeptically. [60:40] I said, but just look at the evidence. [60:42] He says, well I want to see people demonstrating this public. [60:45] I said, well it has been done. [60:47] I said, your brother Stanley Meyer did, the very one you're doing the article on, did numerous public demonstrations. [60:53] And he said, well there were never anyone from academia viewing them. [60:55] I said, that's not true. [60:57] Oh, heck yeah. [60:59] I'll give you a break. [61:01] I'm just an influential scientist in the world. [61:05] But look, this is the kind of thing that happens when a newspaper man tries to do an article on water as fuel. [61:10] You know they had a meeting down in South America. [61:16] And some time just before the, right after the first oil embargo, I think about 10 years, [61:24] they had a meeting down there and the oil companies were trying to determine what it was that they were going to do in the future. [61:31] And British Petroleum came out of that meeting and they said, we're going to change our image and we're going to clean. [61:38] And you notice that British Petroleum, every place around the world, is showing that another face on the oil system [61:47] because they, from that meeting and from the work that's been done and from the scientists that realize that we're running out of fuel and oil and so forth, [61:57] they looked at it and said, hey, what is the future? [62:00] It's not that they don't want it to happen. [62:02] They just don't know. [62:03] You know, they're going to keep producing the oil and doing what they're doing because that's the only thing they know how to do. [62:11] And two, they don't have something to switch to just yet. [62:15] They don't know what to do to switch, so they can switch. [62:18] Yeah, the problem that we have, too, I think, is that they don't want to switch to something that you can gather yourself. [62:26] If water becomes fuel, then everyone who has access to water by a rain barrel or whatever can bypass them supplying it. [62:34] You know, they have to come up with an idea that they can have a quarter on. [62:39] Well, I think they will. [62:41] I mean, it's just, I don't think, it's the apparatuses and things that's producing the energy that is where the focus will be. [62:52] I mean, if the oil industry, once a process is really commercialized, it really is commercialized, [63:01] the money is based on the consumables being used and the product being developed, [63:06] and that's where they'll focus their revenues. [63:09] I mean, they'll go after that to make their money. [63:12] So oil, gas production, vehicles, as we generate the modern vehicle. [63:19] And what I see in the future is far, far reaching than what you're seeing today and these boosters and those kind of things. [63:29] They're kind of like the first step along the way, but my research leaves me to believe, [63:36] and I sense and feel it, and I see it, that there is more to this, and there's more energy that we can use which will benefit mankind, [63:48] because it's a huge amount of energy that's available. [63:51] We're only using... [63:52] More than just the hydrogen-oxygen combustion that a booster or even something like on the Dune Buggy would have done, huh? [64:00] Exactly. [64:01] Or is it something far in excess of that? [64:03] Oh, exactly, exactly. [64:05] What I see from my testing and development, it's huge. [64:11] It's incredible about how much energy is available and what we can do to use it. [64:17] I just... what I need is my... [64:20] I'm like all these other inventors and scientists. [64:23] There's a little different flavor for you and I in what we're talking about. [64:29] One thing I've been trying to bring out is that it takes a little more science to make this thing happen. [64:37] And as I go through and study this science, I see this door opening more and more. [64:45] And it keeps me open night because I said, wow, this is... [64:51] I can't believe some of the things that I'm finding. [64:54] And I have to be very careful that I'm not injecting. [64:58] You know, I gotta be very careful that I want this to happen, so am I doing this? [65:05] Are you being wishful? [65:06] Yeah, yeah, being wishful or not so much wishful, but am I seeing this correctly? [65:13] Yeah. [65:14] And I go back and revisit and I... different ways and I say, wow, it's incredible. [65:21] So the future is gonna be incredible. [65:23] I mean, we're gonna see... [65:25] If you thought the 21st century was something you would wait to use. [65:31] The 21st century? [65:32] Oh yeah, if you thought the... the 22nd century was something you're gonna see. [65:37] But you know, they had the Chicago World's Fair and that's where they introduced electricity. [65:42] They made the biggest ferris wheel in the world. [65:46] It wasn't so much the ferris wheel being so big, it was the fact that they were running it off of an AC motor. [65:53] Yeah. [65:54] And that was huge. [65:55] Well, I think this next... and our new millennium here, by the time it's all said and done, [66:01] there's gonna be a transfer in this technology for our automobiles that will be awesome. [66:09] Just absolutely awesome. [66:11] Well, that's a nice note to end this conversation on. [66:15] I appreciate you having been with us. [66:17] And I'm sure you have more to share that we didn't get around to because of the limited time, [66:21] but it's been enjoyable. [66:23] I'm sure people have benefited from your observations and hopefully you'll be getting more calls from people around the world who will be... [66:31] Send money. [66:32] Well, you know something? [66:34] Adam from Spain is just the one to talk to. [66:37] I kid you not, I'll give you his phone number. [66:39] Would you please? [66:40] So, can I just tell me on an email, will you? [66:42] Yeah, because let me tell you, he's one of the ones who determines where Department of Energy funds go. [66:47] Yeah, I have... after reading his book, I have so much respect for him, I just... I can't tell you. [66:53] I do too, but you know, I feel as the Bible says that Jesus said to Nicodemus in John chapter 3, [66:59] he said, Are you a teacher in Israel and yet you do not know these things? [67:04] And for some reason that scripture came to my mind in... [67:08] What does that mean, by the way? [67:10] The fact that someone can be in a position of authority and responsibility and enlightenment and yet not know basic facts that should be well known. [67:19] Well, I mean, how can you? With the knowledge bases it is? [67:24] I mean, my son, back in 1974, I took a survey. [67:27] He had... at that time he had to read 18 books to every book I read. [67:32] And knowledge was as an exponential and today you'd have to read, I don't know, [67:39] I'll just take a guess, 2000 books to every book I read back then. [67:43] And today I read over 300 books a year and I can't keep up with it. [67:50] So, you know, there's a lot of events that I don't think you can have one person, but I... [67:56] There's information overload, no question about it. [67:58] Well, I think the key here is that as information comes in and you have this ability to scan it and review it, [68:05] and what I like about this doing with this water, I have a complete focus. [68:10] The water technology is my focus and that keeps me from going too far left and too far right. [68:19] I stay with my focus and it's really incredible. [68:22] If you do that, you can concentrate. [68:24] If you can read all the literature and information about water that you can garner, okay, [68:31] and you create your focus that way, you start to see things that other people that haven't done it or are not aware of it, you know, see. [68:40] Yeah, well, you know, I sent him my book and so if that's the first time that such evidence has been presented, [68:47] which I expect it is, I hope that his eyes have been open to what the possibilities are, [68:54] because this information is in the public domain, it's in the U.S. Patent Office. [68:58] There's no reason why any of us should not know that these possibilities, this technology is real [69:04] and there's no excuse for it not being implemented worldwide. [69:08] Yeah, if you can get past what happens is you can't get... [69:12] It's hard to get past the situation. I didn't do it, so, you know, if I didn't invent it, I'm not going to listen to somebody else. [69:20] And that's what happens. You put these blind... [69:23] This is what I call educational blinders. You let your education... [69:28] And that's one thing about Stan was, as much as I was, I understood about science and things at the time, [69:35] I never told him that he was...that it couldn't be done. [69:39] I simply listened to him and at first I just said, you know, you're... [69:43] I don't know what you're smoking, but I want some of it. [69:46] But I said, you know, but I never said that he couldn't do it. [69:51] And then as the years went by, and as he would explain it to me, and then I got involved with him, [69:57] I said, well, Stan, if you...you know, what about this and what about that? [70:00] And then all of a sudden we started to see and explain what was going on. [70:07] And we got excited. I mean, we used to talk. [70:11] We'd start a conversation at dinner time, and it was not unusual to finish up at 3 o'clock in the morning [70:17] trying to figure out what the hell we were doing. [70:19] Yeah, and that's the way that the technology progresses many times through conversations. [70:25] Exactly. You know, we used to take...the Wright brothers used to do that, you know, [70:30] they would...when they were inventing their airplane and trying to understand the controls, [70:35] they would take opposite...one would take a pro and a con to an argument, [70:40] and then after a while they would switch. [70:42] And they would switch that. And you'd be surprised that when you do that, [70:47] the fallout of that conversation, you can really narrow down what it is that you're... [70:53] because they were trying to figure out a wing warp. [70:57] Why in the heck would a warp in the wings allow the plane to turn? [71:01] They couldn't understand that. And you know what, it turned out to be that in that... [71:06] the Smithsonian Institute, they were creating a new airplane, and they did the B-1 bomber. [71:12] And they went back and studied the wing warping, and it turned out to be that it took away one of the problems [71:21] that commercial airplanes have today, which is they use ailerons to cause the plane to bank. [71:28] And when it does, it causes the plane to go into an unstable position in a mode, an unstable mode. [71:36] And here they warp the wings, and that condition didn't exist. [71:40] So here the Wright brothers had figured out the right approach, but it was... [71:46] nobody took it as being practical. [71:48] Isn't that interesting. And I might say in conclusion that it was two Ohio brothers [71:53] and not far from where you and Stan were born and raised. [71:57] Oh exactly, they were over in Dayton, Ohio. [72:00] Yeah, I like going over to the museum. [72:04] Oh, me too. I love the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base Museum. [72:08] It's a wonderful place to get up to speed on aviation technology. [72:12] Thanks so much for joining us, Mr. Meyer. [72:16] Glad to have you as a guest again. Look forward to it again in the future, and I hope everyone has a good evening. [72:20] Enjoyed it, and everybody have fun. [72:24] Talk to you later. Bye bye.